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This is the finale of the
sitting and suffering series and

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it’s evidence of two things that
God has a sense of humor and

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that he’s after abundantly more
than we can ask or imagine I

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didn’t set out to do this
series.

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In fact I was at the tail end of
finishing out, the healing

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series, an epic 51 episode
Adventure through the topic

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appealing.
And so when God prompted, this

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idea of a series focused on
suffering, I was a little

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resistant.
However, I’ve come to know that

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when God gives an And he
typically knows a little more

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than we do and he’s probably
about to do something beautiful.

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So whereas I would have taken
that first conversation with

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Warren and held it for another
time.

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I said yes to God’s invitation
to spend a season, exploring the

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idea of suffering, but what I
said to God was this.

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Okay, I’m willing to do this, as
long as it doesn’t have, as many

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episodes as the healing series,
The Healing series had 51

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episodes.
The Suffering series will have

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52.
God has a sense of humor but it

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has been an amazing journey and
for me an ongoing demonstration

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that God is after abundantly
more than we could ask or

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imagine.
But this episode in particular,

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shows that reality you’re about
to get the privilege of hearing

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a story that very few have heard
because it is not an easy story

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to tell.
Today’s guest is incredibly

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special to me because it is my
wife and for reasons that you

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will hear and never anticipated
that she would be On this

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series.
However, shortly after starting,

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I remember having this small
sense that maybe God would do,

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just that what I knew though,
because of the nature of her

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story and other elements, that
it would take a move of the

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spirit to bring that together
and one morning.

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That’s exactly what happened.
I came downstairs to find her,

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listening to episode 20 with
Corey Widmer, which I

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hilariously thought would be a
finale.

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She pauses.
It looks at me and says, this is

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going to sound crazy, but I
think Think that God wants me to

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share my story in your suffering
series and I think I’m supposed

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to be the finale, I can’t really
find the words to express how

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much that was a demonstration of
God at work.

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And in November with kids in the
background we sat down and

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recorded a story that she
otherwise wouldn’t have publicly

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shared.
And I’m convinced that God is

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working on something beautiful.
So this finale is important.

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Now my wife Becca shares her
story in a very accessible way

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but if you’ve It’s something
like what she’s experienced.

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It could be triggering for you.
But actually shared this is

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something that she hasn’t heard
other people talking about and

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yet is perhaps one of the most
important conversations we can

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have in this season focused on
sitting in suffering.

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You’re listening to episode 164.
The where did he see God

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podcast?
But again, we just want to thank

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you that you were God.
And you were good.

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And we just thank you for your
guidance, in this conversation

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happening.
And we’re just aware of all the

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obstacles that could come about
looting.

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Even the mic issues.
We’ve already had.

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So, we pray against any of that.
We pray against the spiritual

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warfare.
That could try to stop this and

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we invite the spirit because we
know the spirit can do all

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things can do abundantly more
than we can ask or imagine.

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So I want to lift up Back of
that, you would give wisdom and

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guidance that you would give a
sense of freedom for the ways

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that you might invite her to
share that she would give her

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resistance and places you want
or not to press in with that.

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In all this.
We just pray that this would

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bring glory and honor to you
even if no one else hears it.

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I pray that you would be
glorified, but also we

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acknowledge that you can do a
bundling more.

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So we want to give it to you and
thank you in advance for how

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you’re going to work screams.
Holy name.

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Amen.
So I know you, I’ve known you

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for a while but other people
might not know you.

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And so, before we start talking,
what would you want people to

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know about who you are as we
start this conversation?

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Well, I’m your wife.
I think that first and foremost,

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my identity is a daughter of the
Lord.

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I’m a mom to three children.
I am a teacher and I have lived

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in the city of Richmond for 14
years.

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And we lived in Virginia, Me all
my life.

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Yeah.
And if people have been

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listening, they have heard you
because you’ve actually been on

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multiple episodes, particularly
season 2.

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Hmm.
But you also had your own

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episode talking about God,
inviting you to an unexpected

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move into unemployment but this
conversation is a little

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different because this is not a
conversation.

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You necessarily would have
wanted to have.

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It’s not one that you’ve had
with many people, but you felt

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like God was inviting you to
share it.

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Tell me a little bit about that
prompting.

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A minute.
So I was listening to I think it

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was the episode with her Mash.
She was someone we both know or

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maybe it was Cory’s episode.
It was Cory’s episode and I had

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already like sort of had this
thought that maybe I should

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share on this series on sitting
and suffering but I didn’t

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really want to when I was just
listening to his episode, I’m

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not really sure what it was but
I felt like maybe Maybe I really

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should particularly be your
finale on this series, and when

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I share that with you, you
agreed that you would had the

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same sensing when we decided to
move forward.

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Yeah, as we’ve been praying
about this, we have known

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exactly where the story would
go, or what the story should be.

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Because there’s so much to this
story.

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And so, I think the easiest way
is just to start with wherever

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that’s putting on your heart.
Now, yeah, I had a very unique

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experience that has really
shaped the last 16 years of my

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life.
So when I was almost 21, I was a

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Believer.
But I was making a lot of

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decisions.
I was in college, like many

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people that I knew were not
glorifying God.

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I kind of told myself.
I was hiding from God at that

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time and there were just so many
feelings going on inside of

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myself about that.
There was one morning where I

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had been drinking heavily the
night before and the It was a

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good idea to wake up and smoke
some pot for maybe the, I don’t

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know.
Fifth time in my life and I had

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a horrific experience where I
thought I was in Hell.

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There was like some kind of
hallucinations going on, but

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essentially there was a rule in
play that my life was somehow.

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Also, how?
I was only around friends, they

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ended up taking me to the
hospital.

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I mean, I went home that night
and just kind of chalked it up

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as a really bad day and a week
and a half later, I had another

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episode while I was driving my
car, this time I was visiting

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home, so I was close to my
parents.

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I don’t have a whole lot of
memory, but ended up, my car was

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up on a grassy area and that was
the first time I told my

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parents, what had happened a
week and a half before?

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Essentially that kind of like
catapulted into taking an entire

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year off of college.
And the story that I told

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everybody was that I had Mono,
which I did, I did get mono, but

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I just kept having these
recurring.

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These thoughts would come back
to me that the life.

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I was living was actually hell,
it’s really hard to describe.

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A lot of times, I don’t remember
a whole lot of it, of course,

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like I was receiving counseling.
I was on some crazy.

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Asians that thank goodness.
I’m no longer on and was able to

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go back to school and met you
and moved to Richmond and

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started a family.
But every now and then I will

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have what I was calling
episodes.

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And what I now can really calm
or panic attacks where I’ll wake

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up about an hour.
After I’ve fallen asleep from a

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dream and just the realness of
there being some sort of rule

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that my life has hell, it’s
just, it’s really hard.

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Deny and my heart starts beating
really fast and I have recent

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thoughts and I can’t remember a
whole lot of things about it and

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you know, you are usually the
one to walk me through it.

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I think the bigger thing in all
of this is that there are just

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some really big spiritual
implications and life

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implications to having such real
experiences over and over again,

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where I have to have a lot of
faith to believe that God’s

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promises are true.
True for me.

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And I think that it can be
really isolating because though

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there are people I’ve shared
this with and I’ve asked them to

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pray.
I’ve never met another person

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that is going through this
particular experience.

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I’ve heard of people having
visions of Hell or Heaven, but

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nothing with this large of scope
that has lasted for so long.

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There’s a lot of ways that it’s
impacted my walk with the Lord

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and how I see life.
And I will say in the more

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recent Times where I’ve had
these panic attacks many used to

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be.
I mean, it would just really

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knock me down for a period of
time afterward.

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And I feel like now following
these panic attacks, I’m able to

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rely on the Lord more and just
yeah have a deeper dependence on

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him.
Yeah.

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I think that sums up.
Yeah.

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Well and it’s a hard thing to
try to sum up something that is

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like you said 16 years but also
So is not just heavy, but people

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don’t know what to think about
hell.

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So, I mean, you talked about the
isolation and so I can imagine

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talking to doctors if the doctor
doesn’t believe in a heaven or

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hell.
If you tell them, I had an

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experience of hell.
They’re just going to make some

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assumptions about what’s really
going on.

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But then you or if you talk to
Christians, you know, majority

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of Christians would say, they
believe in hell, but they

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probably haven’t really thought
about it.

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Hmm.
And I know one of the hardest

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elements in all of this.
Is how hard it has made it to

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understand what is real and
what’s not?

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Yeah, because the lie that was
told to you is 0 this whole life

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that you known, you were
actually in Hell the whole time.

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And this whole life that you’re
living now it’s not real.

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You’re in hell, right?
I mean I know that it is but

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that has to be incredibly
difficult day to day to not have

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a clear grounding on what is
real and what’s not right well

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and even you saying that you
can’t just really talk to people

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openly about it because that’s
Right.

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Like oh, I don’t have a clear
grasp on reality.

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I mean that’s like, yeah, I
mean, I can function, thank the

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Lord.
But yeah, I think that because

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my understanding of reality has
been challenged.

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I mean one, I’m very like aware
of spiritual Realms like I’m

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aware that life is more than
what we can see, but I think

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that I just have to be really
careful to.

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I mean, what I watched, what
thoughts Enter my head because

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I’ve had these experiences that
justify what I know to be true.

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Yeah.
And I’m aware to of, like the

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impact of like substances on my
brain and like, knowing that

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that was part of it as well.
I’m not saying it was only the

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spiritual things that play well,
and that’s what’s interesting,

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too, is first moment substance
is likely opened a door, but

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there have been many, many, many
moments that substances weren’t

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so sure.
And like you said, trauma has

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come up a lot in conversations
and the idea of triggers and how

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the smallest thing, can trigger
a response.

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And this was incredibly
traumatic experiencing, he’ll

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probably right?
The most traumatic experience.

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So now on a daily basis, you
either have to be cognizant Leah

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where everything or not, and
then get blindsided.

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And that’s part of where I know
God has invited me to be,

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there’s plenty of times where
commercial come on, and I might

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be the first one to notice.
Des or turn the mute button on

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but it’s a lot to carry and
particularly when you’re

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isolated because people wouldn’t
understand or it seems like

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people would judge you.
Now I want to put on the flip

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side of that, because at the
start of it, it was such a

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intense and unknown thing.
It was hard to know how to

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navigate it, but since then
you’ve built relationships since

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then you’ve been in spaces that
talk about this idea of

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spiritual Realms, and spiritual
warfare.

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And so tell me about some Some
of those moments where God

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started to bring people into
your life that you actually

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could be fully open about it.
Yeah, well I’m really thankful

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for an amazing Christian
counselor was just walked with

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me through all of this for
years.

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Yeah, I’m just really thankful
for the way she can look at it

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through science and then also
look at it through a spiritual

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lens and, you know, our pastor
was the person who recommended

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her to me when I told him about.
This situation and certainly you

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know he alongside of people in
our church.

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I think the idea of experiencing
something like this does not

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scare them off.
You know, when I think about

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like one of my earliest
experiences just being around a

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group of people where I could be
vulnerable about this with and

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feel accepted and not feel like
they don’t believe me or

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understand was actually when I
met you what’s it Urban promise

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because we shared our Emojis.
And, of course, this was quite

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fresh.
I mean, only a few years old at

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that point.
And, you know, I think even

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though this experience is
unique, I think that the mental

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health experiences that are
linked to it, anxiety and

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depression are not and somebody
who is a dear friend.

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Now, I’m at that summer and when
I shared my story, she was

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sharing hers and we just
realized that there’s a lot of

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similarities in some of the
mental health struggles.

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We’ve had Yeah, I think that in
my journey with the Lord more

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and more, I feel like the Lord
has brought me to this place

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where I’ve been just more and
more open to the ways that the

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spirit works and understanding
that God is real and active in

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our world.
And because God is God and not

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man, that means that there are
Supernatural things that and

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they’re not always overtly
Supernatural.

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Sometimes, it’s just how I think
God is seeing this.

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And we see that circumstances
are Hang out there.

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Yeah.
Like I think God is doing

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something here.
But yeah, I think that more and

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more.
I’ve been able to be more open

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with that.
And then, as I just am around

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environments that are more open
to those truths, just feeling

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like a freedom in that, just
kind of like what I’ve known to

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be true in my own experience.
Yeah, not feeling alone in that.

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So, you know, when you shared
that, you wanted to share a

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00:15:22,500 –> 00:15:25,700
story on the podcast, one of the
reasons I was Sided outside of

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the fact that that was something
got it planted in my mind that I

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thought was not going to happen,
is the reality that this is such

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an intense thing.
Experiencing Helm that I feel

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like there’s something that
people can gain from it,

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00:15:40,700 –> 00:15:44,300
whatever their situation is
because what you’re sharing

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about, what it’s like to
navigate these experiences of

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hell for 16 years.
Now, I feel like anything

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anybody’s going through, there’s
value in that, but one

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particular piece is, Is that
somebody could do a broad sweep

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00:15:57,000 –> 00:15:59,100
and say.
Well then you just need to pray

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harder or maybe you just aren’t
in a good relationship with God.

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And that was part of the LIE,
right?

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That the enemy was saying is
that oh God can’t love you or

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you’re not really a Christian or
all these things and one thing

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00:16:08,800 –> 00:16:13,100
that I’ve always known about you
is your spiritual disciplines.

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Have always put me to shame
right here.

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00:16:15,600 –> 00:16:19,200
How much time you spend in the
word and prayer and finding

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Creative Expressions.
I’ve frequently seen how you

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00:16:23,400 –> 00:16:27,300
seek God and I thought, man, I
need to get to Becca’s level.

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00:16:27,300 –> 00:16:32,100
They even when we met, there is
one key moment in the origin

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00:16:32,100 –> 00:16:35,100
story of our relationship where
what, you communicated to

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00:16:35,100 –> 00:16:37,800
everyone was that you had a
headache but you were actually

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00:16:37,800 –> 00:16:41,100
navigating some hard thoughts.
And I remember God had put a

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00:16:41,108 –> 00:16:45,000
prompting within me to go and
check on you and specifically,

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00:16:45,000 –> 00:16:47,800
put a verse in my mind, which
was the nothing can separate you

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from the love of God.
And you just looked at me and

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00:16:50,400 –> 00:16:53,100
held up a piece of paper or
something or it was marked in

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00:16:53,100 –> 00:16:54,700
your Bible Bible.
Yeah.

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00:16:54,800 –> 00:16:58,200
Yeah, but it was right there
because that was an important

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00:16:58,200 –> 00:17:01,600
verse and what’s been hard.
As you’ve been trying to seek

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00:17:01,600 –> 00:17:06,300
God and there have been moments
where it’s like, God, I’m trying

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00:17:06,300 –> 00:17:10,400
to seek you and it doesn’t seem
like anything is changing or I

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00:17:10,407 –> 00:17:13,800
don’t know if this is working or
I don’t know why I’m still

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00:17:13,800 –> 00:17:17,200
experiencing this but what
you’ve talked about is you’ve

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00:17:17,200 –> 00:17:19,800
continued to persevere or God’s
equipped you to persevere.

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00:17:20,200 –> 00:17:23,000
And I imagine there’s a lot of
people who feel like I’ve tried

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00:17:23,000 –> 00:17:25,700
to seek God and things just Get
worse.

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00:17:26,300 –> 00:17:28,600
And how would you encourage
somebody in that space where

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00:17:28,600 –> 00:17:31,200
you’re doing everything?
You feel like you can to pray

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00:17:31,200 –> 00:17:33,700
and read the Bible but things
are still hard.

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I think that from my experience,
there are some beliefs that I

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00:17:40,000 –> 00:17:42,400
have that.
I’d like realizing that are

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00:17:42,400 –> 00:17:46,800
blockers and I think everybody
is experience is different as to

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00:17:47,000 –> 00:17:51,000
why their relationship with God.
Doesn’t seem life-giving or

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00:17:51,000 –> 00:17:54,300
joyful.
I think for me, one of the big

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00:17:54,300 –> 00:17:59,100
lies, As that’s in all of this
is like I am incapable of

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00:17:59,100 –> 00:18:02,800
receiving God’s love, which is
like the punishment.

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And I think that one of the
things that I do to refute that

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00:18:07,600 –> 00:18:12,200
is to remind myself of places
where I’ve clearly experienced

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00:18:12,200 –> 00:18:18,600
God, because the word says that
eternal life is knowing god, it

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00:18:18,600 –> 00:18:22,000
is being in, God’s presence.
And so, therefore, if I’ve

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00:18:22,000 –> 00:18:25,400
experienced out, I’ve got a
spoken to me or Or even if it’s

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00:18:25,400 –> 00:18:29,800
not recently, then that means
that I can’t be in help because

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00:18:29,800 –> 00:18:35,000
hell is separation from God.
And I think that sometimes I

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00:18:35,000 –> 00:18:39,200
feel like I’m trapped in my own
mind because I think that

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00:18:39,200 –> 00:18:42,800
circumstances you look at my
life and you think you know,

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00:18:42,900 –> 00:18:47,500
what does she have to be sad
about and I think one thing I’m

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00:18:47,500 –> 00:18:50,800
realizing is there some truth to
that is that you do have to, you

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00:18:50,800 –> 00:18:54,300
know, we’re in the season of
Thanksgiving right now and just

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00:18:54,300 –> 00:18:59,200
thinking a lot about how we do
have a choice to choose what we

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00:18:59,200 –> 00:19:02,900
think on to an extent.
I know that it can be really

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00:19:02,900 –> 00:19:06,200
hard to like discipline our
minds, but I think realizing

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00:19:06,200 –> 00:19:09,500
that I can tend to really focus
more on like what needs to be

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00:19:09,500 –> 00:19:12,100
fixed.
What’s coming up instead of

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00:19:12,100 –> 00:19:16,800
being in the present and
instead, trying to put my

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00:19:16,800 –> 00:19:19,900
thoughts on like and what ways
has God bless me that I’m

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00:19:19,900 –> 00:19:21,900
overlooking or taking for
granite.

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And the other thing that
encourages me is like, the word

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00:19:24,900 –> 00:19:27,900
tells us that it’s only because
of God’s grace that we can seek

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00:19:27,900 –> 00:19:31,200
him in the first place.
And so the fact that we’re

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00:19:31,200 –> 00:19:36,100
continuing to Take Em even when
it’s hard, is actually a

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00:19:36,100 –> 00:19:40,600
testament in and of itself of
like, but she haven’t given up.

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00:19:41,100 –> 00:19:43,300
I mean, maybe you have and
you’ve come back, you know, and

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00:19:43,300 –> 00:19:46,500
that’s okay too.
But amidst all of this to

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00:19:46,500 –> 00:19:49,400
there’s been a lot of Downing
and a lot of, do I believe the

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00:19:49,400 –> 00:19:53,100
right thing and all that?
But I think I just keep coming

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00:19:53,100 –> 00:19:56,100
back to the fact that, like, I
think I want to believe this.

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I want to believe that.
Well, I know from experience

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00:19:59,300 –> 00:20:03,000
that, like, I cannot be the
person that That I believe I was

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00:20:03,000 –> 00:20:06,600
created to be on my own.
I cannot I fall short and even

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when I try my hardest I will
fall shirt.

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There is something in me and my
heart that cannot be that Mark

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00:20:12,700 –> 00:20:16,800
and to believe that the god of
our universe is the one that

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actually is going to do the
hardest work of all for us that

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00:20:19,600 –> 00:20:23,000
we can’t do on our own and that
is given of his very self to do

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that.
I want to believe that.

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Yeah.
And I think just like looking

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00:20:27,700 –> 00:20:31,800
back to see in all the twists
and turns of my life.

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That is still remain constant
that I’m still trying to seek

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after the Lord.
I don’t see that as a reflection

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00:20:38,300 –> 00:20:43,300
of myself and my own Merit, I
see that as God’s faithfulness,

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00:20:44,800 –> 00:20:49,800
that’s really important too.
Because we often have this idea

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00:20:49,800 –> 00:20:53,700
in our mind that the really big
Christian things that happen

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00:20:53,700 –> 00:20:57,400
come from really strong,
Christians, super Christians,

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00:20:57,400 –> 00:21:00,200
and people that have been
listening to podcasts know some

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00:21:00,200 –> 00:21:03,500
of our stories and their story
of miscarriage story of getting

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00:21:03,500 –> 00:21:07,300
a possible House, story of going
and living in Hawaii for three

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00:21:07,300 –> 00:21:10,600
months quitting, our jobs, like,
all these things that people

365
00:21:10,600 –> 00:21:14,800
have heard and looked at us and
said, oh wow.

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Like I wish I could see God like
that.

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00:21:17,400 –> 00:21:21,400
But what you’re communicating is
that it’s God.

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That’s the one doing it.
The well, we’re doing is to the

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00:21:25,000 –> 00:21:27,800
best of our ability, trying to
seek Him, and trying to listen

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00:21:27,800 –> 00:21:29,600
for him and trying to take steps
of obedience.

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But these, he’ll experience Is
are sprinkled throughout all

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00:21:34,200 –> 00:21:36,300
those stories?
Right there?

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00:21:36,300 –> 00:21:39,000
Been years, where it’s happened
multiple times.

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And what I love is that that
experience isn’t a disqualifier

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00:21:45,000 –> 00:21:49,200
or that even if you feel weak or
you were doubting, it isn’t a

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00:21:49,200 –> 00:21:52,100
disqualifier because God still
invited us and so many

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00:21:52,400 –> 00:21:56,500
unexpected things.
But as you were talking I don’t

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00:21:56,500 –> 00:21:59,700
know if I’ve ever thought this
before and this gets into some

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00:21:59,700 –> 00:22:02,400
murky theology for some people,
but I remember Remember, when I

380
00:22:02,400 –> 00:22:06,100
was younger in a Presbyterian
church, we would say the

381
00:22:06,100 –> 00:22:08,300
Apostles Creed and there was a
part in it that would always

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00:22:08,300 –> 00:22:10,300
confuse me.
And sometimes I didn’t even want

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00:22:10,300 –> 00:22:15,100
to say it, but it talks about
how Jesus was crucified dead and

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00:22:15,100 –> 00:22:18,600
buried and he descended into
hell, and on the third day, he

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00:22:18,600 –> 00:22:21,500
rose from the dead, some take
the, he descended into hell out.

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00:22:21,900 –> 00:22:26,700
But there’s this moment for me,
where I remember praying at the

387
00:22:26,708 –> 00:22:29,500
front of the church about
feeling like I was going through

388
00:22:29,600 –> 00:22:33,300
unjust suffering and then, I
brought to mind the sharing in

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00:22:33,308 –> 00:22:35,700
the sufferings of Christ verse
and it was a moment that I

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00:22:35,700 –> 00:22:38,400
realized I understood Christ in
a way I never had before.

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00:22:38,400 –> 00:22:41,000
I was able to connect in a way I
never had before.

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00:22:41,400 –> 00:22:45,600
And if that theologically is
true, that Jesus descended into

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00:22:45,600 –> 00:22:50,700
hell, you have access to a
connection point with Christ

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00:22:50,800 –> 00:22:55,700
that most people don’t like, you
have experienced, what it’s like

395
00:22:55,700 –> 00:22:59,100
to descend into hell and so
you’re able to share in the

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00:22:59,100 –> 00:23:01,800
sufferings of Christ in a way
that others can’t.

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00:23:01,900 –> 00:23:05,900
And you have an understanding of
help that others don’t have that

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00:23:05,900 –> 00:23:08,800
others don’t want to have.
And so when you talk about how,

399
00:23:08,800 –> 00:23:11,800
or when you talk about God’s
love, when you talk about

400
00:23:11,800 –> 00:23:16,200
Heaven, There is a depth to it.
That is so much further than the

401
00:23:16,200 –> 00:23:19,400
broad sweep that so many of your
standard Christians can say.

402
00:23:19,500 –> 00:23:26,500
Yeah, I mean, I do think about
the experience has Brought me

403
00:23:26,500 –> 00:23:29,800
face-to-face with there’s like a
saying that’s like we are more

404
00:23:29,800 –> 00:23:35,100
sinful than we dare to imagine
but we’re more loved than we

405
00:23:35,100 –> 00:23:37,100
could ever imagine something
like that.

406
00:23:37,700 –> 00:23:40,500
And I think that it has
definitely brought me

407
00:23:40,500 –> 00:23:44,300
face-to-face with what I
actually deserve and what our

408
00:23:44,300 –> 00:23:48,400
sin does and then of course puts
me in a place of like I really

409
00:23:48,400 –> 00:23:51,800
hope that and that’s not.
Yeah I really hope that I have a

410
00:23:51,808 –> 00:23:53,400
god who’s going to save me from
that?

411
00:23:53,800 –> 00:23:56,400
I mean I Curry.
There’s people disagree on the

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00:23:56,400 –> 00:24:00,000
Theology of that, but I find it
very comforting that Jesus six,

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00:24:00,000 –> 00:24:02,400
will he?
It does say like people even

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00:24:02,400 –> 00:24:06,800
disagree about this experience
like that he felt separated from

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00:24:06,800 –> 00:24:10,500
God when he died.
And yeah, I feel a lot of

416
00:24:10,500 –> 00:24:14,000
comfort in that that though
there might not be anybody else

417
00:24:14,000 –> 00:24:15,900
on this Earth.
That knows that I think that

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00:24:15,900 –> 00:24:20,100
Jesus does know and really,
weighing way more than I’ve

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00:24:20,100 –> 00:24:24,400
experienced and I think too just
like I other things pop it into

420
00:24:24,400 –> 00:24:27,600
my mind is like when you say I
put you to shame with my sister.

421
00:24:27,600 –> 00:24:30,900
So I just for like that people
look at us and they’re like oh

422
00:24:30,900 –> 00:24:33,800
they’re really following God.
Like I just think that like I do

423
00:24:33,800 –> 00:24:38,000
not feel that way at all.
Like I’m so aware of the ways in

424
00:24:38,000 –> 00:24:44,600
which I fall short or just, I
choose the world’s way over the

425
00:24:44,600 –> 00:24:47,600
Lord’s way and I just say that
because I think we all probably

426
00:24:47,600 –> 00:24:49,600
feel like that.
I think there’s always the

427
00:24:49,600 –> 00:24:52,700
people that we think, okay,
they’re really following the

428
00:24:52,700 –> 00:24:56,200
Lord and I think There are, I
think there are people that are

429
00:24:56,200 –> 00:24:59,200
Farther Along on their spiritual
walk, but I actually think that

430
00:24:59,200 –> 00:25:02,600
they probably have a lot of
struggle in their past Rock them

431
00:25:02,600 –> 00:25:07,100
there and God sanctifies all of
us in different ways and I think

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00:25:07,200 –> 00:25:11,000
I’m probably quite stubborn.
So it would have friends that

433
00:25:13,000 –> 00:25:15,400
helped me get to a place where I
actually will enjoy the

434
00:25:15,400 –> 00:25:17,900
blessings that he has for me in
his presence.

435
00:25:17,900 –> 00:25:20,500
There’s just a lot that has to
Fall Away.

436
00:25:22,000 –> 00:25:25,700
There’s been a recurring theme
throughout this series that I’d

437
00:25:25,700 –> 00:25:28,800
love to hear your thoughts on
and it’s this reality that in

438
00:25:28,800 –> 00:25:32,300
our minds, we believe God
actually loves us and that he’s

439
00:25:32,300 –> 00:25:35,400
with us.
That he’d stop the suffering and

440
00:25:35,400 –> 00:25:39,200
16 years is a long time.
Yeah, 16 years is a long time in

441
00:25:39,200 –> 00:25:42,100
general, 16 years is a long time
when you’ve been trying to seek

442
00:25:42,100 –> 00:25:46,200
God, but one thing you’ve
acknowledged is that you have

443
00:25:46,200 –> 00:25:49,800
had indicators that God loves
you, that God is with you.

444
00:25:50,400 –> 00:25:53,800
And so how do You know, and
trust that God loves you and is

445
00:25:53,800 –> 00:25:56,200
with you, when the suffering
does not stop.

446
00:25:57,100 –> 00:26:01,400
I think that I’ve never really
thought that it’s a DOT issue

447
00:26:01,400 –> 00:26:04,300
that I’m suffering.
I often think it’s a meat issue

448
00:26:05,100 –> 00:26:10,800
so I’m not usually one to be
like where are you got like I’m

449
00:26:10,800 –> 00:26:15,900
more likely to yeah to just turn
inward or if I’m really

450
00:26:15,900 –> 00:26:19,300
believing the lie to say that
he’s not there at all and

451
00:26:19,300 –> 00:26:23,100
there’s no use which that that’s
in my That’s in the darkest, but

452
00:26:23,100 –> 00:26:26,900
I never think that it’s because
of God really.

453
00:26:27,200 –> 00:26:30,200
Well, then, how do you know that
God loves you in the midst?

454
00:26:30,200 –> 00:26:33,700
If the normal indicators that
you’re not having hardship, I

455
00:26:33,700 –> 00:26:38,300
think just remembering the ways
in which those experiences they

456
00:26:38,300 –> 00:26:41,100
shout out at you those panic
attacks the original a shout at

457
00:26:41,100 –> 00:26:42,200
you.
I mean, they just think about

458
00:26:42,200 –> 00:26:45,200
like you know what, it takes
five positives to roll out of –

459
00:26:45,500 –> 00:26:49,600
I mean, it literally is that and
so it’s so easy to fixate on

460
00:26:49,600 –> 00:26:51,400
those experiences.
But quite honestly, there’s

461
00:26:51,500 –> 00:26:56,100
There’s so much less than all
the ways that God has shown his

462
00:26:56,100 –> 00:27:00,100
grace in my life.
And there have been experiences

463
00:27:00,100 –> 00:27:03,700
where I’m like, yes, I believe
that I am experiencing God’s

464
00:27:03,700 –> 00:27:07,500
presence right now and I think
trying to focus on that.

465
00:27:07,500 –> 00:27:11,600
I think often when, you know,
fear is so strong and I’m not

466
00:27:11,600 –> 00:27:15,700
able to think, rationally in, I
can feel my body start to

467
00:27:15,700 –> 00:27:18,600
respond.
It’s just like breathing seeing,

468
00:27:18,700 –> 00:27:21,400
you know, Jesus like if nothing
else in the world.

469
00:27:21,500 –> 00:27:24,500
It’s prayer or my have a prayer
language.

470
00:27:24,500 –> 00:27:25,600
So speaking that.
Yeah.

471
00:27:25,600 –> 00:27:28,500
And I think, when I start to
feel feel full, now I start to

472
00:27:28,500 –> 00:27:33,300
hear like, I’m with you, I love
you and just believing that

473
00:27:33,300 –> 00:27:37,400
that’s the ward.
When you mention panic attacks,

474
00:27:37,400 –> 00:27:42,000
and when you mention the five
positives to outweigh and – I

475
00:27:42,000 –> 00:27:46,000
think with that emphasizes, is
the reality that we can think of

476
00:27:46,000 –> 00:27:48,900
a situation and think of a
solution from the outside.

477
00:27:48,900 –> 00:27:51,800
But when it comes to things like
that, when it comes, To mental

478
00:27:51,800 –> 00:27:54,300
health when it comes to just how
humans work.

479
00:27:54,600 –> 00:27:57,700
Sometimes it isn’t as easy as
just put in the cheat code or

480
00:27:57,700 –> 00:28:01,400
just do these steps and
sometimes it comes down to just

481
00:28:01,500 –> 00:28:04,300
staying at the table even if the
only way you’re able to say the

482
00:28:04,300 –> 00:28:10,800
table is God’s strength through.
So you mentioned earlier that

483
00:28:11,000 –> 00:28:14,700
one of the isolating things is
you don’t really know anybody

484
00:28:14,700 –> 00:28:19,200
who has had an experience like
this to this depth and for this

485
00:28:19,200 –> 00:28:23,000
long.
But Imagine, there could be

486
00:28:23,000 –> 00:28:27,800
someone out there in the world.
Who is experiencing it right now

487
00:28:27,800 –> 00:28:31,900
is in the midst of it and also
feels that isolated.

488
00:28:32,200 –> 00:28:35,000
So imagine there’s somebody
listening who is in that spot.

489
00:28:35,000 –> 00:28:38,400
They have been and continue to
experience how they feel like,

490
00:28:38,400 –> 00:28:41,300
nobody really understands what
that is if you could say

491
00:28:41,300 –> 00:28:43,300
something to them.
Now, what would you want to say?

492
00:28:44,100 –> 00:28:47,700
I think that there’s actually a
lot of people who are probably

493
00:28:47,700 –> 00:28:51,300
experiencing elements that feel
like, separation from God.

494
00:28:51,400 –> 00:28:55,600
Odd.
Even if it’s not in the exactly,

495
00:28:55,600 –> 00:28:58,600
I’ve experienced it.
I mean first, I just want to

496
00:28:58,600 –> 00:29:01,700
like, talk to that person, you
know, like what.

497
00:29:02,300 –> 00:29:05,600
But I mean really, I think the
thing that comes to my mind is

498
00:29:05,600 –> 00:29:09,500
like, let’s pray for each other
because I think that I would

499
00:29:09,500 –> 00:29:13,700
know what to pray for you for
and you would know what to pray

500
00:29:13,700 –> 00:29:16,200
for me for.
Yeah, I just I think that

501
00:29:16,200 –> 00:29:19,600
there’s such a bond there too
but I think there’s a lot of

502
00:29:19,600 –> 00:29:21,300
things I could say that our
advice.

503
00:29:21,500 –> 00:29:23,200
Skipper’s.
But I think it would more just

504
00:29:23,200 –> 00:29:26,100
be like I’d love to walk with
you through this.

505
00:29:26,100 –> 00:29:29,400
Like I’d love for both of us to
walk because I’m not sure if I

506
00:29:29,400 –> 00:29:33,100
have advice or two codes or any
of that.

507
00:29:33,400 –> 00:29:37,400
I think that it would just be
more of a conversation of just

508
00:29:37,400 –> 00:29:42,000
listening and listening to their
experience and gab trying to

509
00:29:42,000 –> 00:29:44,900
speak truth.
Sometimes it’s much easier when

510
00:29:44,900 –> 00:29:48,600
it’s not you to speak truth into
someone’s life and I’m really

511
00:29:48,600 –> 00:29:50,900
thankful for the ways that
people have confidently, spoke

512
00:29:50,900 –> 00:29:53,200
truth.
All over my life and just given

513
00:29:53,200 –> 00:29:55,400
me confidence.
I mean there has never been a

514
00:29:55,408 –> 00:29:59,500
person who’s like, yeah, I think
you probably are in hell yeah,

515
00:29:59,700 –> 00:30:03,200
like no, not all mine, which is
encouraging, right?

516
00:30:03,400 –> 00:30:07,300
So yeah, we’ve got three more
questions.

517
00:30:07,500 –> 00:30:09,900
Hmm.
Two of them were not ones that I

518
00:30:09,900 –> 00:30:13,000
planned because the one I just
ask you is usually my close to

519
00:30:13,000 –> 00:30:16,700
the last one, but the first is,
a lot of times the way that we

520
00:30:16,700 –> 00:30:19,500
approach, something like this,
we are seeking God and praying.

521
00:30:19,500 –> 00:30:22,500
The goal is for the bad.
Thing to stop happening.

522
00:30:22,800 –> 00:30:25,700
So, the goal is that you would
not experience hell anymore.

523
00:30:25,900 –> 00:30:28,400
And you, and I prayed his
prayers going to be many, many,

524
00:30:28,400 –> 00:30:31,900
many times and they’re still
been scary moments, right?

525
00:30:32,500 –> 00:30:35,600
So, if the goal isn’t for the
hell experiences to stop, what

526
00:30:35,600 –> 00:30:38,700
do you think?
The goal is Yeah.

527
00:30:38,800 –> 00:30:41,800
I mean I think I’ve had this
like realization of legal.

528
00:30:41,800 –> 00:30:45,700
What if this just continues?
Well, I’m living here on Earth.

529
00:30:47,400 –> 00:30:51,800
Hopefully, they will be, the
whole point is that they will

530
00:30:51,800 –> 00:30:55,500
stop.
But how can I still seek to have

531
00:30:55,500 –> 00:30:58,500
a relationship with God in the
midst of this?

532
00:30:58,800 –> 00:31:00,600
Yeah.
How can my relationship with

533
00:31:00,600 –> 00:31:02,100
God?
Be more important than

534
00:31:02,600 –> 00:31:05,600
eliminating?
Because I think the hard thing

535
00:31:05,600 –> 00:31:10,000
about it is it’s like, if this
gets a limited then it takes

536
00:31:10,000 –> 00:31:13,500
away this fear.
And so, then my life would then,

537
00:31:13,500 –> 00:31:16,600
I would be more confident.
But it’s like can I still try

538
00:31:16,600 –> 00:31:19,100
and build up?
That confidence even when this

539
00:31:19,100 –> 00:31:21,600
is still going on.
Yeah, it’s almost like the

540
00:31:21,608 –> 00:31:24,100
converse of that would be, that
could have come to God.

541
00:31:24,100 –> 00:31:28,000
Except in this scenario, in this
hard scenario, God’s not enough

542
00:31:28,000 –> 00:31:30,200
for this is enough, so I can’t
have that happen.

543
00:31:30,200 –> 00:31:32,400
But if this is gone, then we’re
good.

544
00:31:33,400 –> 00:31:36,400
And one thing I appreciate about
what you’ve shared is that you

545
00:31:36,400 –> 00:31:38,800
made it clear, something that it
could be hard for people to

546
00:31:38,800 –> 00:31:43,200
believe, but in the worst of
situations, it’s possible to

547
00:31:43,200 –> 00:31:46,800
keep on stepping forward.
There’s in plenty of times where

548
00:31:46,800 –> 00:31:49,800
your Strength was sapped and you
had no idea what’s going on but

549
00:31:50,000 –> 00:31:52,300
you can look back now be like,
well, even if it was by the

550
00:31:52,300 –> 00:31:56,800
grace of God, like I got through
that, I navigated that the other

551
00:31:56,800 –> 00:32:00,800
thing I wanted to ask is someone
can come to that realization,

552
00:32:00,800 –> 00:32:05,300
but one place that they might
stop short is sharing their

553
00:32:05,300 –> 00:32:07,800
Journey with others processing,
their Journey with others.

554
00:32:08,200 –> 00:32:12,400
Now that you have shared, how
would you encourage others who

555
00:32:12,400 –> 00:32:18,400
may be hesitant to open up?
Yeah, I mean I think the verse

556
00:32:18,400 –> 00:32:21,600
that like stuck in my head is
like we overcome by the blood of

557
00:32:21,600 –> 00:32:24,000
the lamb and the word of Our
Testimony.

558
00:32:24,500 –> 00:32:28,400
But I also think that you don’t
need to feel pressure.

559
00:32:28,900 –> 00:32:32,200
I think one thing I’ve learned
is that God is really patient

560
00:32:32,200 –> 00:32:36,100
with us and just because we
might not feel ready now, does

561
00:32:36,100 –> 00:32:39,400
it mean that won’t happen?
I think especially if it’s like

562
00:32:39,400 –> 00:32:43,000
okay, I think maybe this is
something that I’d like to do or

563
00:32:43,000 –> 00:32:45,700
should do but like I just I
cannot right now.

564
00:32:45,900 –> 00:32:49,300
Now, and I’ve had gosh, so many
moments and my faith journey of

565
00:32:49,300 –> 00:32:52,500
that feeling.
And I think what I’ve learned is

566
00:32:52,500 –> 00:32:56,200
like, okay, well, maybe it’s the
large job to work this out in

567
00:32:56,200 –> 00:32:59,300
me.
Yeah, I think like, talk it over

568
00:32:59,300 –> 00:33:01,600
with people.
I think, doesn’t mean to be a,

569
00:33:02,000 –> 00:33:04,400
just you type of thing.
And I think there’s just so many

570
00:33:04,400 –> 00:33:07,200
ways to share stories, right?
Doesn’t need to be over a

571
00:33:07,208 –> 00:33:10,200
podcast.
I can just be with one person

572
00:33:10,700 –> 00:33:13,600
and sometimes those moments come
up, where it just really feels

573
00:33:13,600 –> 00:33:20,100
more natural to share the story.
We’ll walk you through the

574
00:33:20,100 –> 00:33:38,800
streets shouting, we have this
tendency as people to project

575
00:33:38,800 –> 00:33:42,200
out what God might do,
especially if we navigate hard

576
00:33:42,200 –> 00:33:45,700
spaces in obedience to him.
We think if I just go through

577
00:33:45,800 –> 00:33:49,100
This hard thing, God is going to
do something amazing.

578
00:33:49,300 –> 00:33:51,400
And I’ll be honest, many of
those thoughts went through my

579
00:33:51,400 –> 00:33:53,700
mind, went back and I sat down
to record.

580
00:33:54,100 –> 00:33:56,800
I thought, what if we just both
start weeping because there’s

581
00:33:56,800 –> 00:34:00,400
such a powerful move of the
spirit while we’re recording or

582
00:34:00,600 –> 00:34:03,100
what if some big Revelation
comes about through the

583
00:34:03,100 –> 00:34:07,300
conversation or what if?
After recording, she’s totally

584
00:34:07,300 –> 00:34:10,100
and utterly freed from
experiencing hell.

585
00:34:10,800 –> 00:34:12,900
What I didn’t expect is, what
actually happened?

586
00:34:13,300 –> 00:34:15,699
Perhaps just a few nights later.
She experienced one of the most

587
00:34:16,000 –> 00:34:18,600
Intense attacks that she had
ever experienced.

588
00:34:19,000 –> 00:34:21,699
I won’t go into details, but it
was incredibly difficult for

589
00:34:21,699 –> 00:34:24,300
both of us and I found myself
processing.

590
00:34:24,300 –> 00:34:27,699
This reality that she had taken
a step of obedience to share her

591
00:34:27,699 –> 00:34:32,000
story and now, I did the attacks
continue, but it seemed to get

592
00:34:32,000 –> 00:34:34,400
worse.
It wasn’t the ending that I was

593
00:34:34,400 –> 00:34:37,400
looking for, but maybe it’s the
ending that we need for this

594
00:34:37,400 –> 00:34:40,900
series, because as we’ve heard
from story, after story after

595
00:34:40,900 –> 00:34:45,199
story where God often showed up,
most was not necessarily fixing

596
00:34:45,199 –> 00:34:48,100
things.
But creating something new not

597
00:34:48,100 –> 00:34:52,400
necessarily doing what we’d
hoped but doing abundantly more

598
00:34:52,600 –> 00:34:56,600
than we could ask or imagine and
realistically, Becca shared.

599
00:34:56,600 –> 00:34:59,200
But this may be something that
she carries for the rest of her

600
00:34:59,200 –> 00:35:01,800
life.
But I will say that the

601
00:35:01,800 –> 00:35:04,900
intensity of that attack carried
less power than I would have

602
00:35:04,900 –> 00:35:08,400
expected that despite how
intense the attack was.

603
00:35:08,600 –> 00:35:12,300
It did not overpower us like it
could have we both were

604
00:35:12,300 –> 00:35:16,200
convinced that God was present
and active even in the It’s of a

605
00:35:16,208 –> 00:35:18,700
frightening experience, and
while an attack of that

606
00:35:18,700 –> 00:35:21,300
intensity could have knocked her
out for weeks or months.

607
00:35:21,500 –> 00:35:24,500
She’s been able to stand and
step forward through the power

608
00:35:24,500 –> 00:35:28,500
of the spirit, because the
reality is nothing is stronger

609
00:35:28,600 –> 00:35:32,300
than God and his love.
This is how Romans 8 puts it

610
00:35:32,300 –> 00:35:36,400
beginning in, verse, 35, can
anything ever separate us from

611
00:35:36,400 –> 00:35:40,000
Christ’s love Does it mean he no
longer loves us?

612
00:35:40,100 –> 00:35:44,700
If we have trouble or Calamity
or are persecuted or hungry or

613
00:35:44,700 –> 00:35:48,800
destitute, or endanger or
threatened with death, as the

614
00:35:48,800 –> 00:35:52,800
scriptures say, for your sake,
we are killed every day, we are

615
00:35:52,800 –> 00:35:58,800
being slaughtered like sheep.
Know despite all these things

616
00:35:59,100 –> 00:36:02,700
overwhelming Victory Is Ours
through Christ.

617
00:36:03,000 –> 00:36:08,200
Who loved us.
And I am convinced that nothing

618
00:36:08,200 –> 00:36:13,000
can ever separate us from God’s
love, neither death, nor life.

619
00:36:13,300 –> 00:36:17,800
Neither, angels nor demons.
Neither our fears for today, nor

620
00:36:17,800 –> 00:36:22,800
our worries about tomorrow.
Not even the powers of hell can

621
00:36:22,800 –> 00:36:26,800
separate us from God’s love.
No power in the sky above, or in

622
00:36:26,808 –> 00:36:28,100
the earth below.
Indeed.

623
00:36:28,200 –> 00:36:31,900
Nothing in all creation, will
ever be able to separate us from

624
00:36:31,900 –> 00:36:34,500
the love of God.
That is revealed in Christ.

625
00:36:34,700 –> 00:36:39,200
Jesus, our lord.
This is not only an incredibly

626
00:36:39,200 –> 00:36:42,600
fitting, passage to close out
this sitting suffering series,

627
00:36:42,900 –> 00:36:45,700
but it is an incredibly relevant
passage for my wife.

628
00:36:45,700 –> 00:36:49,200
And I, because before, I really
understood what she was

629
00:36:49,200 –> 00:36:52,700
navigating with experiencing
hell, one day, I had a sense

630
00:36:52,700 –> 00:36:56,500
that something was wrong and God
brought this verse to my mind.

631
00:36:57,000 –> 00:37:00,900
We have heard story after story.
After Story of hardships, that

632
00:37:00,900 –> 00:37:05,200
could lead us to question.
God’s love stories of loss and

633
00:37:05,200 –> 00:37:09,500
sickness of addiction.
In of Brokenness, even the story

634
00:37:09,500 –> 00:37:12,100
of Christ experiencing a
suffering that we will never be

635
00:37:12,100 –> 00:37:15,400
able to comprehend.
And yet, none of that can

636
00:37:15,400 –> 00:37:20,600
separate us from God’s love, not
even the powers of hell can

637
00:37:20,600 –> 00:37:25,800
separate us from God’s love for
years, my wife has had to face

638
00:37:25,800 –> 00:37:30,000
the lies of hell that she is
separated from God, that God

639
00:37:30,000 –> 00:37:32,900
doesn’t love her.
That she is, Unworthy of his

640
00:37:32,900 –> 00:37:37,100
love over and over and over
those lies were through.

641
00:37:37,200 –> 00:37:39,800
It’s on her.
So utterly that it can be hard

642
00:37:39,800 –> 00:37:41,800
to know what is true and what is
not.

643
00:37:42,600 –> 00:37:47,700
And yet there was never a single
moment when she was actually

644
00:37:47,700 –> 00:37:53,200
separated from God’s love.
If even hell, the most profound

645
00:37:53,200 –> 00:37:56,900
expression of suffering, can’t
separate us from God’s love.

646
00:37:57,400 –> 00:38:03,300
You right now are not separated
from God’s love, no matter what

647
00:38:03,300 –> 00:38:06,400
suffering you are experiencing
no matter what hardship is

648
00:38:06,400 –> 00:38:07,600
bringing you down.
Down.

649
00:38:07,700 –> 00:38:10,300
God’s love is not going
anywhere.

650
00:38:10,800 –> 00:38:15,200
You are loved.
And so the end of this series

651
00:38:15,200 –> 00:38:19,500
isn’t about giving answers about
how to navigate suffering, but

652
00:38:19,500 –> 00:38:23,800
it is simply this to say that
God loves you and that nothing

653
00:38:23,800 –> 00:38:27,200
can separate you from that love.
And so, instead of sharing more

654
00:38:27,200 –> 00:38:30,500
of my thoughts, I want to read
that passage again and I want

655
00:38:30,500 –> 00:38:34,100
you to close your eyes and
really take it in, because in

656
00:38:34,100 –> 00:38:38,300
your hardest moments, this truth
may be precisely What you need,

657
00:38:39,600 –> 00:38:42,800
can anything ever separate us
from Christ’s love?

658
00:38:44,200 –> 00:38:46,500
Because it mean he no longer
loves us.

659
00:38:46,800 –> 00:38:52,300
If we have trouble or Calamity
or are persecuted or hungry or

660
00:38:52,300 –> 00:38:56,800
destitute, or endanger, or
threatened with death, as the

661
00:38:56,800 –> 00:39:01,200
scriptures say, for your sake,
we are killed every day, we are

662
00:39:01,200 –> 00:39:07,300
being slaughtered like sheep.
Know despite all these These

663
00:39:07,300 –> 00:39:14,100
things overwhelming Victory Is
Ours through Christ who loved us

664
00:39:15,000 –> 00:39:19,700
and I am convinced that nothing
can ever separate us.

665
00:39:19,700 –> 00:39:23,200
From God’s love neither death,
nor life.

666
00:39:23,400 –> 00:39:27,800
Neither, angels nor demons.
Neither our fears for today, nor

667
00:39:27,800 –> 00:39:32,000
our worries about tomorrow.
Not even the powers of hell can

668
00:39:32,000 –> 00:39:37,200
separate us from God’s love.
No power in the sky above or in

669
00:39:37,200 –> 00:39:39,800
the earth below.
Indeed.

670
00:39:40,200 –> 00:39:45,400
Nothing in all creation, will
ever be able to separate us from

671
00:39:45,400 –> 00:39:48,400
the love of God.
That is revealed in Christ

672
00:39:48,400 –> 00:39:51,700
Jesus.
Our lord, as you think about

673
00:39:51,700 –> 00:39:54,900
your hardship, go ahead and
place it in the midst of Paul’s

674
00:39:54,900 –> 00:39:57,600
list.
Does it mean he no longer loves

675
00:39:57,600 –> 00:39:59,400
you?
If this thing is happening?

676
00:40:00,300 –> 00:40:04,100
No, despite that thing
overwhelming victory.

677
00:40:04,300 –> 00:40:07,500
Yours through Christ.
Who loves you?

678
00:40:08,200 –> 00:40:13,300
God is love.
God loves you and nothing can

679
00:40:13,300 –> 00:40:16,900
separate you from that love.
So, whatever hardship, you are

680
00:40:16,900 –> 00:40:21,500
about to face, choose to trust
that love and that you are

681
00:40:21,500 –> 00:40:23,900
loved.
Look at your situation through

682
00:40:23,900 –> 00:40:28,600
that lens and then ask yourself,
where did you see God?

683
00:40:34,000 –> 00:40:35,700
Have you ever wanted to read
Revelation?

684
00:40:35,700 –> 00:40:38,700
But haven’t known where to
start, or have you been afraid

685
00:40:38,700 –> 00:40:40,900
to read Revelation because of
all the ways you’ve seen it

686
00:40:40,900 –> 00:40:44,500
misused or maybe you haven’t
even wanted to touch Revelation

687
00:40:44,500 –> 00:40:47,500
but feel like maybe you should
since it’s part of the Bible.

688
00:40:48,500 –> 00:40:51,000
Well, if you’re in any of these
positions or any other ones,

689
00:40:51,200 –> 00:40:53,800
I’ve got a resource for you,
it’s called a journey through

690
00:40:53,800 –> 00:40:56,800
Revelation for the person who
doesn’t want to read Revelation.

691
00:40:57,500 –> 00:41:00,700
And here’s the thing, hope for
this resource is that it makes

692
00:41:00,700 –> 00:41:04,500
the expiration of who God is and
what revelation SHINee mean for

693
00:41:04,500 –> 00:41:08,900
you accessible, whatever you
believe and this will not be

694
00:41:08,900 –> 00:41:11,900
your normal Revelation study,
it’s not going to dive into the

695
00:41:11,900 –> 00:41:15,500
historic representations of the
imagery or expertly decipher the

696
00:41:15,500 –> 00:41:17,900
prophecies.
The goal of this is not to tell

697
00:41:17,900 –> 00:41:21,000
you what Revelation means, it’s
to explore.

698
00:41:21,000 –> 00:41:24,600
What it can mean for you.
Now, this thing is available for

699
00:41:24,600 –> 00:41:28,300
you right now in a few forms.
One, you could go to

700
00:41:28,300 –> 00:41:34,200
www.weather.gov/gjt latian and
you can find a PDF for free,

701
00:41:34,200 –> 00:41:38,100
which you can read on your phone
on your device or print out.

702
00:41:38,400 –> 00:41:41,100
But if you like something that’s
a little nicer looking, it is

703
00:41:41,100 –> 00:41:45,700
also available through Amazon on
Kindle and in paperback form.

704
00:41:46,100 –> 00:41:49,300
And I prefer paper back, whether
you print it or you get the one

705
00:41:49,300 –> 00:41:52,200
on Amazon because this gives you
a place to write some things

706
00:41:52,200 –> 00:41:53,700
out.
Because you’re going to want a

707
00:41:53,700 –> 00:41:56,800
place to write things out,
because I really do believe that

708
00:41:56,800 –> 00:41:59,900
God wants to speak to you,
through Revelation, whatever you

709
00:41:59,900 –> 00:42:03,300
feel about Revelation, whatever
your experience, and whatever

710
00:42:03,300 –> 00:42:06,700
you think about God.
So, if you’re interested, get it

711
00:42:06,700 –> 00:42:09,500
for free, get it for a very,
very, very low price.

712
00:42:09,500 –> 00:42:13,300
This is not about making money,
but about us together exploring,

713
00:42:13,700 –> 00:42:17,700
how we can see God in the midst
of such a difficult and

714
00:42:17,700 –> 00:42:23,100
controversial book.
Thank you so much for taking the

715
00:42:23,100 –> 00:42:25,700
time to listen to the way.
Did you see God podcast?

716
00:42:25,800 –> 00:42:28,300
And I would love for your
stories to be a part of it as

717
00:42:28,300 –> 00:42:30,200
well.
So there are a number of ways

718
00:42:30,200 –> 00:42:32,400
that you can do that.
You can check out our Facebook

719
00:42:32,400 –> 00:42:36,300
page at where did you see God
podcast you can go to Anchor.

720
00:42:36,300 –> 00:42:38,500
Dot f m /.
Where did you see God?

721
00:42:38,700 –> 00:42:43,100
Where you can leave a brief
voice message at 8:04 37 to 38?

722
00:42:43,100 –> 00:42:47,000
36, I would love to hear your
stories and if the stories

723
00:42:47,000 –> 00:42:50,400
you’ve heard have encouraged you
think of someone else, who could

724
00:42:50,400 –> 00:42:52,700
be encouraged as Out and share
it with them.

725
00:42:53,300 –> 00:42:56,400
The music you’ve been listening
to is you’ll walk, you’ll run by

726
00:42:56,400 –> 00:43:00,900
Urban, doxology, they are a
solid group and you will love

727
00:43:00,900 –> 00:43:02,000
listening to the rest of the
music.

728
00:43:02,000 –> 00:43:05,400
So, check them out.
And as always as you go through

729
00:43:05,400 –> 00:43:08,800
your day, ask yourself, where
did you see God?