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When my kids were younger, it
was not uncommon for them to get

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so worked up over something they
felt like was wrong that they

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couldn’t hear me talking to
them.

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Sometimes I would stand there
and say The thing is right

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there, or I would say I know you
think this is wrong, but here’s

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what’s actually happening.
But they couldn’t hear me.

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They were so focused on what
they thought needed to happen

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that they couldn’t receive the
answer I was giving.

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One thing I’ve learned about
parenthood is there is so much

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that I can experience with my
kids that I later realize I do

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with God.
It is not uncommon for me to get

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so focused on what I think is
going wrong, so focused on what

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I think needs to happen, that
I’m not actually listening to

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God even as I cry out to Him
sometimes.

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He’s already given me the
answer, yet I allow years to

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pass as I continue to cry out
for help.

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Today’s guest, Heather O’Brien,
has spent a lot of time

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processing what it looks like to
really listen.

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She had known God her whole
life, but it wasn’t until later

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that she learned that she could
not only be in relationship with

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God, but hear from Him.
And learning what it means to

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really listen for God has
transformed her life.

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If there’s an area in your life
that you’ve been longing for

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healing, this conversation may
help you learn how to really

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listen.
You’re listening to episode 243

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of the Where Did You See God
podcast.

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Father God, I just thank you
that you are God and you are

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good.
And we do thank you that you

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choose to speak in a myriad of
ways, including through storms.

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And so we pray right now for the
weather where Heather is not

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just for the sound element, but
also protection over the

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Internet.
We’ve already faced some issues.

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And so we release all this to
you because we want this space

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to be for you.
I do thank you that you brought

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Heather and I together.
And right now we just say here

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we are.
We invite you to speak through

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US, Holy Spirit, move in the
conversation and guide it.

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And ultimately, God, we pray
that you were honored and

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glorified by what happens here.
All this we pray in the most

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holy and precious name.
Amen.

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Amen.
Well, Heather, I’m excited to

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dive into whatever God has for
us, including Thunder.

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But before we do, what would you
want people to know about who

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you are?
Well, who I am now is obviously

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because of who I was before.
Right now, I’m helping

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Christians hear God’s voice so
that they can heal from anxiety,

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depression, trauma, cycles that
they just want to stop.

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But that started because of who
I was.

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I was a person struggling with
depression for many years,

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struggling with panic attacks,
being overweight.

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I lost 100 lbs.
Like there was just so many

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symptoms in my life and right
now my passion in life is to

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say, let’s look at the symptoms
as clues instead of conclusions

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and let’s see what God is saying
is really at the bottom of that

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struggle.
I just continue to use that own

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framework in my own life too.
And so I I’m passionate about

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helping others see that there’s
roots to issues and we can

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actually find freedom instead of
managing what Jesus already paid

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for us to be healed from.
You know what’s interesting

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about this conversation is I
recently restarted recording

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conversations after a unplanned
hiatus in the first 3 episodes

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were very much focused on the
mind and our intellect, and

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you’re tapping into a very
relevant area in the human

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experience of definitely still
the mind and mental health, but

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emotion as well.
And the.

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Heart and you said something
interesting how these things we

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treat them as conclusions, but
you came to discover them as

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clues and even more, you came to
discover God in the midst of

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what I imagine often felt like
godless times like God, where

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are you?
And so I would love to hear that

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journey where you were as you
were navigating these hardships

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versus where you are now
understanding the clues in God’s

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presence.
OK, you said mind and emotions,

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and I’m like, what?
There’s physical symptoms too.

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And I’ve been on this journey
for over a decade now of walking

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it myself and then walking with
others too.

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And what’s funny is I still use
the same framework and I’m still

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like almost confound.
I’m like, Heather, why didn’t

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you pray faster?
Why did you wait so long?

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You had this symptom in your
life?

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So one of the most recent ones,
maybe one year by now, I had

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cold feet, like really, really,
really cold feet physically.

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And they like, I know everybody
has cold feet, but these, this

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was like painful cold feet.
And I thought that it was just a

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symptom of being in my 40s.
Oh, I turned 40.

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It’s just, I just thought this
is what happens as a girl.

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Like it just must be my
hormones.

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That’s all I could think of.
And I didn’t, I wasn’t praying

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about it.
I wasn’t, I wasn’t doing

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anything because I were wearing
a lot of socks.

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I went 2 summers without wearing
any of my favorite flip flops

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and I was praying one night
about other things.

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I was kind of going through a
fast and doing just some

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spiritual disciplines and I was
praying for physical things just

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in general.
And I remember the fast was over

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and I was like, I never prayed
for my feet.

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I wonder if God has anything to
say about that.

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And so I just stopped and
prayed.

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God is my cold feet.
Like a thing like this is how I

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pray.
Specifically, I say, is it a

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body, soul or spiritual issue?
And I just listen like maybe I

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just need to go doctor.
Maybe I need to eat different.

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Let me, I don’t know.
And I just really wasn’t

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expecting him to say it was
spiritual, but that was where we

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went with this.
And he starts asking me

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questions.
And this is how I find God in

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the midst of symptoms that are
clues.

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I prayed and I’m listening.
He asked me a question.

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He says, well, Heather, what do
you think of when you think

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about cold feet?
And my first thought was at the

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altar, like a, a bride
hesitating at the altar or, or

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groom whatever.
And this had never come to my

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mind.
This is like 2 years of cold

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feet and I never once crossed my
mind.

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And he was like, OK, yes, dig
deeper, you know, And this is

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how I have a conversation with
God.

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He’s he’s just provoking me to
keep on asking him more

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questions.
And as I continue the

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conversation, it’s God.
What am I double minded about?

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What am I unsure about?
And he leads me down a whole

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path, a whole trajectory of
events that had LED up to this.

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Without going all into it.
I mean, I, I prayed through it,

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I repented, I, I prayed through
it.

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I got down to the bottom.
And this was all in like in 60

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seconds.
And once I got done with the

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prayer, my feet were hot, like
warm hot.

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And I hadn’t experienced that in
a couple years.

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And so I’m just like, wow, you
could find God in a lot of clues

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in your life.
And some of them are physical.

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So a piece of this then, is
recognizing that when we’re

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navigating something, going to
God is a legitimate option.

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And when we often forget, even
as we’re praying for other

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things, how did you come to know
that God was someone you could

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go to?
OK, so I was safe since I was a

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young girl.
I always loved Jesus, but I did

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not know that you could have a
relationship with him.

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I didn’t know I could hear his
voice until I was 30 years old.

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And that’s kind of the thing
that kind of projected, you

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know, where I am right now.
When I was 30, I was a grown

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woman suffering with all of
these symptoms in my life, and I

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found out you could hear God’s
voice.

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And that provoked me.
OK, if I can hear God, the

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creator of the universe, then
that means I could ask Him

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questions and that means He
would talk back to me because I

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could hear Him for a lot of
things.

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So of course I would ask Him
about the things I was on the

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struggle bus with.
So I did, I started feeling led

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to ask Him questions about, you
know, where was He when this

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happened?
What does he think about this?

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What about this?
Why?

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Why is this still in my life?
I had a lot of struggles in my

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life and it wasn’t all instant.
OK, the story I just told you

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was instant, but it wasn’t
always instant like that.

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There was a lot of times where
it was a journey.

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He’s not so interested in the
destination as he has the

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journey is what I find.
And so as I kept asking him

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questions, he would ask me
questions back.

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And it would, there’s lots of
things that I’m still on a

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journey with like decades.
And I’m like, God, can we talk

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about this again?
Like where we at now?

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Somebody listening to this could
now hit another wall.

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Maybe they are in a similar
place that you were before 30

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where it’s like I, you know,
love God, love Jesus.

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I’m trying to live a good
Christian life, but the concept

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of hearing from God seems very
foreign.

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You know, maybe they’ve tried to
pray and they feel like all

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they’ve got in a silence, but
then they hear people saying,

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oh, God told me this and God
told me that.

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And so tell me a little more
about that element of hearing

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from God.
Like what did it look like to

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not just understand that in a
new way, but to engage it from

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that starting point of not
understanding?

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Well, I remember the first day I
was with just with another

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friend and she was like, yeah, I
hear God, don’t you?

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And and I was like, what?
Hold up, hold the phone.

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What did you do?
What now?

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And I’m over here thinking I’m
in love with Jesus and she’s

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telling me she can talk to him.
So there was that moment of hold

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up, like let’s like how?
Like, but how that’s my, one of

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my favorite questions is like,
let’s do this practically.

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And one of the first ways that I
started being able to discern

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his voice.
Maybe discern is a better way to

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say it because it’s not always,
he’s not always going to talk in

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your native language.
I’m not always hearing him.

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Like I hear you talking English
to me.

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One of the very beginning things
was that I had dreams at night

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all my life.
I was a dreamer and that was God

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trying to talk to me in a lot of
different ways.

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And I had no idea.
I just thought I was a dreamer.

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I even remember my mom from a
young age, she would wake up,

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Oh, you won’t believe this crazy
dream I had.

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So it was actually generational
and she didn’t know either.

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You know, we, we just discussed
these funny dreams.

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But whenever I had the awareness
of, oh, this is God trying to

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speak to me, I started studying
it.

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So that’s what it looks like to
get curious getting really, I

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was so curious like, OK, if he
can talk to me, how does he want

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to talk to me and what does he
sound like and how well I know

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if it’s him or me.
I just got really curious and I

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started asking all of these
different questions and studying

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a lot.
I started reading a lot of

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books.
I started, I put my hands on

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anything I could to learn more
about this topic.

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And I did learn there’s some
places you don’t need to

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research.
There’s a lot of people who

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believe that dreams are
important, but not everyone

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believes in the same way.
They’re not looking at it

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through a biblical lens.
They’re looking at through a

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worldly lens.
You have to be really careful

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where your research leads you.
I would just say that be really

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mindful.
So I wanted everything to go

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back to the Scriptures.
And I would say that to you

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like, if you’re getting curious,
be curious, but stay true to the

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word of God because it’s not
going to fail you.

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It’s a good sturdy path to keep
on.

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Yeah.
So I started discerning that I

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could hear God’s voice in
dreams, in nature.

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I could ask him questions and
put a pen to paper.

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And I’ve had so many people say,
well, yeah, but it doesn’t work

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00:11:35,440 –> 00:11:38,360
for me.
And I’m like, OK, Step 1 is just

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believing by faith.
That’s kind of Christianity.

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One O 1 is belief by faith.
Like belief, like a child, like

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there’s a child likeness that
needs to come into this

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equation.
Because if you come at this like

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00:11:50,640 –> 00:11:53,400
you’re a no doll and you got it
all figured out, you’re probably

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00:11:53,400 –> 00:11:55,560
going to mess up.
But if you come at it with a

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00:11:55,560 –> 00:11:57,680
little bit of faith, like God,
what do you want to say to me

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right now?
Just one thing, you know, the

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first things that he would say
to me, it totally changed my

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life was I love you.
Just three words.

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I would be sobbing in the middle
of wherever I was.

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If I was just, you know, quote,
quote, practicing in my car, all

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of a sudden I would hear it, but
I would sense it, I would feel

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it and I would experience it.
When he says it, you experience

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it.
You know that you know that, you

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know, you didn’t just make that
up.

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That was something I needed to
hear because I was wrecked by

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fear and perfect love expels all
fear.

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And so every time you would say
that to me, a little bit of fear

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00:12:31,480 –> 00:12:33,320
was going, a little bit more was
going.

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And so he knew exactly what I
needed to hear.

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He wasn’t like randomly telling
me things.

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00:12:38,520 –> 00:12:42,280
It was a very intentional and
personal for my experience.

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Just be inquisitive.
If you’re like brand new at

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00:12:44,920 –> 00:12:49,400
this, get curious.
It’s funny, curiosity has been a

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00:12:49,400 –> 00:12:54,400
recurring theme in the recent
episodes, and it is so important

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00:12:54,400 –> 00:12:59,360
because prior to that, we’re
stubborn minded because we know

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00:12:59,360 –> 00:13:03,600
how things work, we know what
can and can’t happen, and all of

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00:13:03,600 –> 00:13:06,920
us have experienced moments
where we were confident about

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00:13:06,920 –> 00:13:09,640
something that later on we
realized we were wrong about.

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And curiosity opens up the
possibility that maybe God can

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00:13:15,200 –> 00:13:18,440
speak, maybe we can hear him,
even if we have years of

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00:13:18,440 –> 00:13:22,080
evidence to the contrary.
It allows it to say maybe

254
00:13:22,080 –> 00:13:25,880
there’s something that I don’t
know, and maybe somebody steps

255
00:13:25,880 –> 00:13:27,360
into that.
But then we had another problem,

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00:13:27,360 –> 00:13:31,080
right?
Where we say God can work in

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00:13:31,080 –> 00:13:35,600
this way and maybe he does one
or two or five times, but then

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00:13:35,800 –> 00:13:39,840
suddenly he doesn’t in this very
important area or he doesn’t for

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00:13:39,840 –> 00:13:43,000
like a week, a month, a year in
a row.

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00:13:43,320 –> 00:13:47,640
You talked about two scenarios,
one where when you finally

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00:13:47,640 –> 00:13:50,600
prayed about your feet after
about a minute or so, suddenly

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00:13:50,880 –> 00:13:52,760
they’re hot and you’re putting
on your favorite flip flops

263
00:13:52,760 –> 00:13:55,840
again, right?
But then you also talked about

264
00:13:55,840 –> 00:13:59,560
another scenario.
You said 10 years that you are

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still like, all right, God,
what’s the deal?

266
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And so how do you navigate that
when you’ve stepped in faith

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00:14:05,000 –> 00:14:07,960
that God can do this?
But then there are some really

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key moments where it seems like
it’s not working.

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I’m really passionate about this
question because there is an

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00:14:15,840 –> 00:14:18,720
answer to it and I want to go
two ways with this.

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Number one, I remind myself,
what was the last thing he said?

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What was the last thing he said?
Because oftentimes I haven’t

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00:14:27,680 –> 00:14:29,760
obeyed that thing.
And so of course he’s not going

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00:14:29,760 –> 00:14:32,240
to give me another thing.
Like I need to go do that thing.

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And I’ve been putting it off.
I’ve been like me, I don’t

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00:14:35,360 –> 00:14:37,320
really want to right now.
Maybe later.

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00:14:37,400 –> 00:14:41,520
What else you got got?
And he’s like, no, that’s number

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00:14:41,520 –> 00:14:43,240
one.
Go back to the last thing that

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00:14:43,240 –> 00:14:48,320
he talked about and #2 would be,
what about if you pray different

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00:14:48,440 –> 00:14:51,960
prayers?
I started asking different

281
00:14:51,960 –> 00:14:56,600
questions and prayers and then
realizing, oh, he wasn’t

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00:14:56,600 –> 00:15:00,120
answering this one prayer
because in that prayer, for

283
00:15:00,120 –> 00:15:03,880
instance, it put him in a box.
I wasn’t curious.

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00:15:04,640 –> 00:15:09,280
Example OK, I was addicted to
cigarettes and I stopped.

285
00:15:09,480 –> 00:15:10,960
I just decided I’m going to stop
one day.

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00:15:11,400 –> 00:15:14,280
And I stopped for 10 solid
years, but one and one every

287
00:15:14,280 –> 00:15:16,680
day.
So still in bondage.

288
00:15:17,280 –> 00:15:21,640
I still wanted one, but I my
body was physically empty of the

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00:15:21,960 –> 00:15:26,560
addiction, but my mind wasn’t.
And one day I came to myself and

290
00:15:26,560 –> 00:15:30,800
I started praying through it and
he gave me a divine encounter.

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00:15:31,440 –> 00:15:35,480
There’s a whole little thing
where he showed me 1,000,000

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00:15:35,520 –> 00:15:38,360
reasons why I still wanted.
That thing wasn’t just one.

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00:15:39,400 –> 00:15:42,120
It wasn’t just one.
He showed me I needed belonging.

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00:15:42,320 –> 00:15:45,120
He showed me I made an agreement
when I was young, I saw someone

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00:15:45,120 –> 00:15:47,200
doing it.
I said, oh, that looks good.

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00:15:47,200 –> 00:15:49,680
I’ll do that when I get older.
I couldn’t remember that.

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00:15:50,560 –> 00:15:53,880
He showed me that I felt like I
needed to do this to not be the

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00:15:53,880 –> 00:15:55,600
good girl.
He showed me all these

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00:15:55,600 –> 00:15:58,520
agreements that I had made in my
mind like a lot.

300
00:15:58,960 –> 00:16:02,720
And so while he delivered me in
this moment, he did it in this

301
00:16:02,720 –> 00:16:06,600
like this beautiful divine
encounter that took me, I don’t

302
00:16:06,600 –> 00:16:09,280
know, three or four years to
understand what even happened

303
00:16:09,880 –> 00:16:12,240
because I was completely free at
that moment, just like the foot

304
00:16:12,240 –> 00:16:14,080
scenario.
And I say all this to say, like

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00:16:14,080 –> 00:16:16,840
I have a student, She was
wanting to quit alcohol.

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00:16:17,080 –> 00:16:18,640
She didn’t understand why it
wouldn’t work.

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00:16:18,640 –> 00:16:22,080
She had already quit meth and
all kind of other seemingly

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00:16:22,080 –> 00:16:24,120
harder things, but she couldn’t
quit this one thing.

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00:16:24,800 –> 00:16:26,240
And I said, well, what are you
praying?

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OK, so this is a key moment
right here.

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00:16:28,240 –> 00:16:31,240
What are you praying?
And she said, well, I’m asking

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God to take the desire away from
me.

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I was like, OK, that’s a
reasonable prayer.

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00:16:36,760 –> 00:16:38,080
And it actually works for some
people.

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00:16:38,080 –> 00:16:41,000
I don’t know why, but also,
how’s that working for you?

316
00:16:42,360 –> 00:16:45,440
And obviously it wasn’t.
And I’m not trying to be snarky

317
00:16:45,440 –> 00:16:46,800
here.
I’m saying if you start praying

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00:16:46,800 –> 00:16:50,640
different prayers, you might get
down to the root of why you have

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00:16:50,640 –> 00:16:53,840
that problem in your life.
And so you might say, I’m not

320
00:16:53,840 –> 00:16:56,280
hearing God and I might say you
might need to ask a different

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00:16:56,280 –> 00:16:59,240
question.
Go back to number 1 was like,

322
00:16:59,240 –> 00:17:02,960
what did he say last time you
did hear him and #2 could you

323
00:17:02,960 –> 00:17:06,119
ask him a different question?
Could you reword it?

324
00:17:06,200 –> 00:17:08,599
Could you get it where you’re
outside of the box?

325
00:17:08,599 –> 00:17:11,599
For instance, like with the
alcohol, she instead of saying

326
00:17:11,599 –> 00:17:13,319
God, take this desire away from
me.

327
00:17:13,319 –> 00:17:15,280
That seems like a prayer, but
it’s not really a question.

328
00:17:15,800 –> 00:17:18,160
Maybe you could pray God, why do
I want this?

329
00:17:18,800 –> 00:17:20,720
Why did I ever start wanting
this?

330
00:17:20,960 –> 00:17:23,599
Why can’t I stop?
What agreements have I made in

331
00:17:23,599 –> 00:17:25,480
the Spirit that make this
reasonable?

332
00:17:25,480 –> 00:17:28,200
Anyways, you could go on and on,
but like go back to the very

333
00:17:28,200 –> 00:17:32,440
first time that you can remember
him talking to you and then also

334
00:17:32,440 –> 00:17:34,920
pray different prayers.
And that’s where faith comes in,

335
00:17:34,920 –> 00:17:38,720
Like, and there’s a maturity
element, yes, but it comes back

336
00:17:38,720 –> 00:17:43,120
to just if you know those two
things, like anybody can do

337
00:17:43,120 –> 00:17:45,600
this, this.
I mean, it’s not for just like

338
00:17:45,880 –> 00:17:48,360
the ordained minister to do
this.

339
00:17:48,360 –> 00:17:51,640
Like anybody can pray different
prayers and get different

340
00:17:51,640 –> 00:17:52,160
answers.
So.

341
00:17:52,200 –> 00:17:54,400
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

342
00:17:54,400 –> 00:17:57,560
It’s threading that curiosity
and through it again.

343
00:17:57,560 –> 00:18:00,640
And it’s interesting because
sometimes when we think

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00:18:00,640 –> 00:18:04,760
something’s not working, it
reveals a lot more about our

345
00:18:04,800 –> 00:18:06,600
limited understanding than
anything else.

346
00:18:06,600 –> 00:18:10,880
It’s like if a farmer tells a
kid to plant a seed and it’s

347
00:18:10,880 –> 00:18:15,600
going to grow corn, if the kid
plants a seed, puts the dirt on

348
00:18:15,600 –> 00:18:17,920
and says where’s the corn?
It didn’t work.

349
00:18:17,920 –> 00:18:21,480
I think the farmers like.
That’s because there’s a process

350
00:18:21,480 –> 00:18:23,160
here.
That’s because you haven’t

351
00:18:23,160 –> 00:18:25,040
watered it yet.
That’s because there’s it needs

352
00:18:25,040 –> 00:18:29,040
time and sun and but sometimes
we get so focused on the end

353
00:18:29,040 –> 00:18:33,840
result that we don’t really pay
attention to what needs to

354
00:18:33,840 –> 00:18:35,760
happen.
What you talk about to the

355
00:18:35,760 –> 00:18:39,120
curiosity I think is great
because we think we know again,

356
00:18:39,120 –> 00:18:42,640
what the solution should be, but
God might be working on

357
00:18:42,640 –> 00:18:45,720
something completely different.
And when you are sharing, it

358
00:18:45,720 –> 00:18:49,520
made me think of the apostle
Paul who was praying over and

359
00:18:49,520 –> 00:18:54,680
over and over take this thorn in
my flesh away and it wasn’t

360
00:18:54,680 –> 00:18:57,080
working.
And he prayed 3 times and it

361
00:18:57,080 –> 00:19:00,360
wasn’t working.
Yet what he came to discover was

362
00:19:00,600 –> 00:19:04,760
God’s main concern wasn’t the
thorn, It was Paul’s

363
00:19:04,760 –> 00:19:07,800
predisposition to being
conceited.

364
00:19:08,400 –> 00:19:12,560
And God knew that by allowing
this thorn to remain, it was

365
00:19:12,560 –> 00:19:15,600
actually healing this element of
pride within Paul.

366
00:19:15,760 –> 00:19:18,360
It was keeping him in a position
of trusting God.

367
00:19:18,360 –> 00:19:23,280
And so, ultimately, the core of
Paul’s pursuit of God, it was

368
00:19:23,280 –> 00:19:25,280
working.
And God even did respond to him.

369
00:19:26,400 –> 00:19:29,520
My grace is sufficient for you.
So he got a response.

370
00:19:29,520 –> 00:19:32,000
It wasn’t a blank space like,
well, I guess God doesn’t want

371
00:19:32,000 –> 00:19:34,520
to heal me because what?
That’s not the assumption any of

372
00:19:34,520 –> 00:19:35,280
us should come to.
Yeah.

373
00:19:35,680 –> 00:19:38,400
Yeah, yeah.
And this is what’s tricky then

374
00:19:38,400 –> 00:19:42,680
for us is because we can get so
honed in to a narrow way of

375
00:19:42,680 –> 00:19:45,160
understanding things.
We can miss so much.

376
00:19:45,160 –> 00:19:49,360
But you noted in your prayer you
want to remain open to saying,

377
00:19:49,360 –> 00:19:52,640
all right, God, is this a
physical thing, a mental thing,

378
00:19:52,640 –> 00:19:56,120
a spiritual thing?
Tell me more about how you came

379
00:19:56,120 –> 00:19:59,680
to understand the holistic
reality of how God’s created us.

380
00:19:59,880 –> 00:20:02,920
The Scripture puts it we’re
expected to not just love God,

381
00:20:03,280 –> 00:20:06,240
but to love him with our heart
and our mind and our soul and

382
00:20:06,240 –> 00:20:09,560
our strength all of ourselves.
But we have these different

383
00:20:09,560 –> 00:20:12,080
elements of how we engage and
experience of the world.

384
00:20:12,440 –> 00:20:15,440
Have you come to understand that
in your exploration of prayer

385
00:20:15,440 –> 00:20:18,640
and healing?
During my healing journey, I

386
00:20:18,640 –> 00:20:22,200
kept hearing this whisper
internally, Heather, you have a

387
00:20:22,200 –> 00:20:25,000
gift of healing.
I just kept hearing and I’m

388
00:20:25,000 –> 00:20:27,880
like, who are you talking to?
Like what?

389
00:20:27,880 –> 00:20:30,040
I don’t, I don’t.
I don’t know what to pray, how

390
00:20:30,040 –> 00:20:32,240
to pray.
I no, I don’t.

391
00:20:32,720 –> 00:20:34,200
All I could think of is no, I
don’t.

392
00:20:35,040 –> 00:20:37,800
And that same thought just kept
coming to me.

393
00:20:37,800 –> 00:20:40,120
And I would see someone with
crutches, for instance, and I

394
00:20:40,120 –> 00:20:44,560
would want to see them healed so
badly as we’re prior before it

395
00:20:44,560 –> 00:20:47,880
never crossed my mind.
OK, so I went through this

396
00:20:47,880 –> 00:20:50,120
thought process with God.
I’m like, OK, God, you’re saying

397
00:20:50,120 –> 00:20:52,800
I have the gift of healing.
And then I did start praying for

398
00:20:52,800 –> 00:20:55,680
people and not seeing anything
seemingly work.

399
00:20:56,680 –> 00:20:58,520
And so then I started doing all
this research.

400
00:20:58,520 –> 00:21:00,640
I’m trying to learn how to pray
for healing.

401
00:21:01,240 –> 00:21:03,160
And I mean, I read so many
books, so many ways.

402
00:21:03,160 –> 00:21:06,040
I’m like, I’m looking for a
formula like tell me what to

403
00:21:06,040 –> 00:21:09,000
pray and I’ll I’ll say those
words and this should work.

404
00:21:09,520 –> 00:21:10,680
And I couldn’t find a book like
that.

405
00:21:12,320 –> 00:21:16,200
I came to one book and at the
very back when I got to the end

406
00:21:16,200 –> 00:21:18,880
of it, it said something like
you might be looking for a

407
00:21:18,880 –> 00:21:21,080
formula and we don’t have one
because we want you to be spirit

408
00:21:21,080 –> 00:21:24,360
LED.
And I’m like, I need a formula.

409
00:21:24,360 –> 00:21:28,520
Tell me what to say.
But they did give me an idea and

410
00:21:28,520 –> 00:21:32,040
that provoked everything.
They gave me some some prompts.

411
00:21:32,160 –> 00:21:35,960
They said try this, try this,
try this, and they gave me some

412
00:21:35,960 –> 00:21:40,120
ideas and they helped me realize
that it is body, soul and spirit

413
00:21:40,280 –> 00:21:43,000
that you’re praying for.
And you might be praying for the

414
00:21:43,000 –> 00:21:45,800
body, but really they need to
forgive someone in order to

415
00:21:45,800 –> 00:21:49,520
physically be healed.
So I had this desire to see

416
00:21:49,520 –> 00:21:53,680
healing in people and everyone
that he would bring me to needed

417
00:21:53,680 –> 00:21:56,760
to forgive someone.
And I’m like, how is it like

418
00:21:56,960 –> 00:21:58,240
God?
I thought I had the gift of

419
00:21:58,240 –> 00:22:00,560
healing and all you do is keep
bringing me people who need to

420
00:22:00,560 –> 00:22:03,240
forgive someone.
And then I had to memorize.

421
00:22:03,240 –> 00:22:05,080
I had to write.
I just had to write these sticky

422
00:22:05,080 –> 00:22:06,960
notes.
OK, pray these prayers.

423
00:22:06,960 –> 00:22:08,200
Do it.
Go like this and explain,

424
00:22:08,200 –> 00:22:10,000
explain, explain.
And then I’m like, I got to

425
00:22:10,000 –> 00:22:11,840
write a book about this.
Like, I don’t want to say this

426
00:22:11,840 –> 00:22:14,520
anymore.
That’s where it started.

427
00:22:14,720 –> 00:22:17,880
It’s like God was like, OK,
these people need healing in

428
00:22:17,880 –> 00:22:20,200
their heart.
They need to forgive from the

429
00:22:20,200 –> 00:22:22,920
heart.
And in that forgiveness, it

430
00:22:22,920 –> 00:22:24,360
would lead to so much other
healing.

431
00:22:24,360 –> 00:22:26,960
I would see people physically
lose weight.

432
00:22:26,960 –> 00:22:29,360
I would go to some people and
I’m like, what do you want me to

433
00:22:29,360 –> 00:22:30,680
pray for you for?
And they were like, I want to

434
00:22:30,680 –> 00:22:33,520
lose weight, OK, I’ll pray for
you.

435
00:22:33,640 –> 00:22:36,160
And they would lose weight
instantly after they forgave

436
00:22:36,160 –> 00:22:39,000
someone.
It was constantly connected to

437
00:22:39,320 –> 00:22:42,240
something physical.
I would see bladder infections

438
00:22:42,240 –> 00:22:44,520
healed.
I would see back pain healed.

439
00:22:44,800 –> 00:22:47,200
I would see all kind of things.
And so it came with words of

440
00:22:47,200 –> 00:22:49,000
knowledge.
So you like I would hear God’s

441
00:22:49,000 –> 00:22:50,920
voice and he would say they need
to forgive.

442
00:22:51,480 –> 00:22:53,680
Or do you have a sister that you
need to forgive?

443
00:22:53,680 –> 00:22:55,920
Like it would be pretty specific
a lot of times.

444
00:22:55,920 –> 00:22:57,960
Do you have a group of people
you need to forgive?

445
00:22:58,920 –> 00:23:01,720
And then it went from
forgiveness to OK, do you have a

446
00:23:01,720 –> 00:23:04,000
fear in your life?
And then I noticed a lot of

447
00:23:04,000 –> 00:23:06,760
different fears were holding
people captive even though they

448
00:23:06,760 –> 00:23:09,040
wanted physical healing.
For instance, they might have

449
00:23:09,040 –> 00:23:12,280
chronic fatigue, they might have
lower back pain, they might have

450
00:23:12,280 –> 00:23:14,160
asthma, they different things
like that.

451
00:23:14,160 –> 00:23:17,120
And God would show me the
different fear in their life.

452
00:23:17,120 –> 00:23:20,320
Not just fear, but a name of
fear, like fear of abandonment,

453
00:23:20,320 –> 00:23:22,840
fear of rejection, fear of, you
know, you name it.

454
00:23:23,520 –> 00:23:26,720
And so I’m, I’m putting all this
together and I’m realizing there

455
00:23:26,720 –> 00:23:30,200
is a body, there’s a soul, and
there’s a spiritual aspect to

456
00:23:30,200 –> 00:23:33,840
all of this too.
And I just put all these pieces

457
00:23:33,840 –> 00:23:36,520
together and God’s like you do
have the gift of healing.

458
00:23:36,880 –> 00:23:39,760
And it comes by hearing my voice
and knowing which part of them

459
00:23:39,760 –> 00:23:42,400
needs the healing.
And a lot of times it’s all

460
00:23:42,400 –> 00:23:43,920
connected.
It’s not just one, right?

461
00:23:43,920 –> 00:23:46,800
My feet needed to quit being
cold and that was physical, but

462
00:23:46,800 –> 00:23:49,040
also I needed to quit being
double minded.

463
00:23:49,280 –> 00:23:51,360
And the double mindedness was a
spiritual thing.

464
00:23:51,640 –> 00:23:53,480
And so it was like it was all
connected.

465
00:23:53,560 –> 00:23:56,120
And that’s been a journey of
progression of me learning and,

466
00:23:56,760 –> 00:23:58,760
and I’ve wrote it in books
because I want everyone else to

467
00:23:58,760 –> 00:24:01,120
know I’m like, man, whatever
took me 10 years.

468
00:24:01,120 –> 00:24:06,560
I hope it takes you 10 minutes.
It makes me think of the story

469
00:24:06,600 –> 00:24:11,680
of the person who was crippled
in his friends tried to get him

470
00:24:11,680 –> 00:24:14,040
to Jesus and couldn’t get
through the crowd.

471
00:24:14,040 –> 00:24:17,400
So they went up on the roof,
tore up the roof, lowered him

472
00:24:17,400 –> 00:24:20,840
down.
And what they’re thinking and

473
00:24:20,840 –> 00:24:23,840
what everyone else around them
is thinking is this person

474
00:24:23,840 –> 00:24:27,480
clearly needs healing for their
body because they’re on this cot

475
00:24:27,480 –> 00:24:28,680
and they can’t move on their
own.

476
00:24:29,200 –> 00:24:33,640
And that is not what Jesus does.
He says your sins are forgiven.

477
00:24:33,640 –> 00:24:36,760
He knew there was this deeper
healing that needed to happen,

478
00:24:37,200 –> 00:24:41,040
and that’s what he healed.
But then he goes a step further.

479
00:24:41,280 –> 00:24:44,280
It’s really hilarious.
Then he recognizes the

480
00:24:44,280 –> 00:24:47,760
brokenness within the Pharisees.
Like he can understand what

481
00:24:47,760 –> 00:24:49,760
they’re thinking and what
they’re grumbling about.

482
00:24:49,960 –> 00:24:53,040
In response to that.
He then heals the body.

483
00:24:53,640 –> 00:24:56,480
But that healing also wasn’t in.
It was for the person in the

484
00:24:56,480 –> 00:25:01,400
cot, but also he was providing
this push for healing, for the

485
00:25:01,400 –> 00:25:04,440
spiritual brokenness of those
that were grumbling and

486
00:25:04,440 –> 00:25:08,160
questioning in the room.
And this is Jesus, Jesus who

487
00:25:08,160 –> 00:25:12,240
knew how to heal and not even in
an instant with a touch, but

488
00:25:12,240 –> 00:25:16,280
even from afar.
And yet in his wisdom, he

489
00:25:16,280 –> 00:25:21,560
understood healing more deeply.
You know, for us, a lot of times

490
00:25:21,560 –> 00:25:26,400
the reason that we want healing
is because the issue is causing

491
00:25:26,400 –> 00:25:29,640
pain or discomfort or limiting
life.

492
00:25:30,560 –> 00:25:34,600
And we’re tapping into this
reality that there are other

493
00:25:34,600 –> 00:25:37,760
things often at play.
And So what does all this say

494
00:25:37,760 –> 00:25:42,880
about what life is like, what
humanity is, what purposes, if

495
00:25:42,880 –> 00:25:46,440
it is bigger than just My feet
are cold and I want them warm.

496
00:25:48,720 –> 00:25:53,200
That’s a very deep question.
And here’s the thing, whenever I

497
00:25:53,280 –> 00:25:57,320
find that there’s something in
the way of my healing, like

498
00:25:57,320 –> 00:26:01,080
personally, I feel God
redirecting me back to what’s

499
00:26:01,080 –> 00:26:02,440
your why?
What’s your motive?

500
00:26:02,840 –> 00:26:04,400
What’s your purpose on this
earth?

501
00:26:04,920 –> 00:26:07,560
My number one purpose.
And actually everyone I know,

502
00:26:07,560 –> 00:26:09,120
everyone’s wondering what’s my
purpose on this earth?

503
00:26:09,120 –> 00:26:12,560
Well, Jesus made it really easy.
He said love God and love your

504
00:26:12,560 –> 00:26:15,400
neighbor as you love yourself.
If you got your little

505
00:26:15,400 –> 00:26:18,200
constituent circles, that’s at
the middle.

506
00:26:18,240 –> 00:26:20,560
And so if that’s not working
out, the other things aren’t

507
00:26:20,560 –> 00:26:23,320
going to work out too.
So you might want to see your

508
00:26:23,320 –> 00:26:27,000
business flourish or watch your
family members doing well and

509
00:26:27,000 –> 00:26:29,560
your relationships good and your
finances good and your health

510
00:26:29,560 –> 00:26:32,080
good.
But all of that has to bubble

511
00:26:32,080 –> 00:26:34,600
down to do you love God, others
and self.

512
00:26:34,600 –> 00:26:36,960
And a lot of times we’re good at
loving God.

513
00:26:37,320 –> 00:26:41,760
We’re good at loving others, but
loving ourself is super hard.

514
00:26:41,920 –> 00:26:45,880
That’s when one of the trickiest
laces that we can get is loving

515
00:26:45,880 –> 00:26:50,960
ourself well.
And whenever we do, everything

516
00:26:50,960 –> 00:26:54,520
else starts to line U.
And whenever we remember, love

517
00:26:54,520 –> 00:26:56,040
is the goal for others too,
right?

518
00:26:56,040 –> 00:26:58,560
Like, like this conversation
right here, right now.

519
00:26:58,680 –> 00:27:01,360
All I want to do is make sure
that whoever’s listening right

520
00:27:01,360 –> 00:27:03,320
now feels loved, known, and seen
by God.

521
00:27:03,960 –> 00:27:07,400
There’s no ulterior motive.
But if there was, this probably

522
00:27:07,400 –> 00:27:10,360
wouldn’t play out that well.
It wouldn’t be that great of a

523
00:27:10,360 –> 00:27:12,120
conversation.
But I’m hoping that you

524
00:27:12,120 –> 00:27:14,000
understand.
I want you to get healed.

525
00:27:14,000 –> 00:27:16,880
I want you to know that there is
a God that loves you.

526
00:27:17,080 –> 00:27:19,400
He wants you to be healed.
He wants you to live an abundant

527
00:27:19,400 –> 00:27:24,280
life and you can the bigger
purpose and and everything is

528
00:27:24,280 –> 00:27:26,680
just love.
And if you’re not seeing the

529
00:27:26,680 –> 00:27:31,160
physical healing, it might be
like, OK, how can we find love

530
00:27:31,160 –> 00:27:34,200
in this equation?
That question helps me anyways.

531
00:27:34,200 –> 00:27:38,680
It’s like, where’d my love go?
And sometimes it’s so camouflage

532
00:27:38,680 –> 00:27:40,800
that you don’t realize that it
disappeared.

533
00:27:41,160 –> 00:27:43,960
I’ve noticed this in my life
when I I’m trying to work out

534
00:27:43,960 –> 00:27:46,400
more, I’m trying to eat right
more.

535
00:27:46,400 –> 00:27:49,000
Maybe everyone can resonate with
this, you know, got I want more

536
00:27:49,000 –> 00:27:51,680
nutrition and movement that just
equals all my goals.

537
00:27:52,160 –> 00:27:54,280
And then I’ll do it great for a
week and then a week I’ll be

538
00:27:54,280 –> 00:27:56,000
like, oh, I don’t want to do
that anymore.

539
00:27:56,360 –> 00:27:58,760
And like, God, why was it so
easy last week but not this

540
00:27:58,760 –> 00:28:00,960
week?
And he reminds me of the same

541
00:28:00,960 –> 00:28:03,000
truth, Heather, you thought it
was work.

542
00:28:04,000 –> 00:28:06,200
You thought it was work.
And so you had to rest from your

543
00:28:06,200 –> 00:28:08,160
work.
And if you have to rest from

544
00:28:08,160 –> 00:28:10,400
your work, it wasn’t coming from
a place of love.

545
00:28:10,800 –> 00:28:13,480
It was work.
And so that kind of helps in a

546
00:28:13,480 –> 00:28:15,880
lot of areas of my life is
remembering, OK, this isn’t

547
00:28:15,880 –> 00:28:17,960
work, This is love.
I do this out of love.

548
00:28:18,000 –> 00:28:21,840
Yeah.
Yeah, when we think of the

549
00:28:22,160 –> 00:28:27,720
longer term situations, the the
long-suffering moments and the,

550
00:28:28,120 –> 00:28:32,240
you know, decade of praying, you
shared some things that somebody

551
00:28:32,240 –> 00:28:35,200
can navigate through ways that
they could come back to the

552
00:28:35,200 –> 00:28:37,920
table with curiosity and with
openness.

553
00:28:38,560 –> 00:28:42,080
And sometimes somebody is
faithfully doing that and

554
00:28:42,840 –> 00:28:46,320
they’re still the hardship.
There’s they’re still the thing

555
00:28:46,320 –> 00:28:50,000
that they long to be healed.
How can somebody find

556
00:28:50,000 –> 00:28:53,080
encouragement when God is
inviting them to a longer

557
00:28:53,080 –> 00:28:55,960
journey than they feel like they
should have to do?

558
00:28:57,400 –> 00:28:59,600
Well, I can really resonate with
that.

559
00:29:00,000 –> 00:29:02,360
I want to say I’m so sorry.
I’m so sorry.

560
00:29:02,360 –> 00:29:04,880
It’s so hard.
A lot of times our journey is

561
00:29:04,880 –> 00:29:08,720
harder and longer because we’re
making it harder and longer.

562
00:29:09,760 –> 00:29:12,320
But let’s pretend that’s not the
truth.

563
00:29:12,760 –> 00:29:15,640
If you’re doing everything
right, quote UN quote, you’re

564
00:29:15,640 –> 00:29:18,080
loving God, you got your mind
right and everything.

565
00:29:20,280 –> 00:29:23,600
I want to say this in the most
gentle, gentle, loving way that

566
00:29:23,600 –> 00:29:26,560
I can.
There is a way that you can

567
00:29:26,560 –> 00:29:30,920
endure hardships and grow your
perseverance, grow your

568
00:29:30,920 –> 00:29:33,400
character and actually see it as
an opportunity.

569
00:29:34,360 –> 00:29:37,840
The longer that it persists, if
you’re in this for a long haul,

570
00:29:38,760 –> 00:29:41,280
the more dedicated you’re going
to have to be to having that

571
00:29:41,280 –> 00:29:45,920
mindset renewed to having that
mind fixed on just, I’m just

572
00:29:45,920 –> 00:29:48,480
looking straight ahead at Jesus.
I’m not going to look at my

573
00:29:48,480 –> 00:29:50,280
problems.
I’m not going to make my

574
00:29:50,280 –> 00:29:53,920
problems bigger than God.
I’m not going to consider my

575
00:29:53,920 –> 00:29:57,640
problems worthy of me getting
depressed, angry, upset.

576
00:29:58,000 –> 00:30:00,480
I’m going to focus on who can I
love today?

577
00:30:00,960 –> 00:30:03,600
How can I love them?
What can I put my heart towards?

578
00:30:04,200 –> 00:30:06,520
I want to say it’s a mindset
issue, but it’s a heart issue.

579
00:30:06,960 –> 00:30:11,200
Like God wants us to renew our
mind and renewal of the mind

580
00:30:11,200 –> 00:30:15,160
happens over time.
It’s not instant when we start

581
00:30:15,160 –> 00:30:17,120
filling ourself with the word of
God, we start making

582
00:30:17,120 –> 00:30:19,320
declarations from the word of
God and things like that.

583
00:30:19,680 –> 00:30:22,800
We renew our mind.
We actually create new things

584
00:30:22,840 –> 00:30:25,640
going on in our brain.
And that’s not instant.

585
00:30:25,640 –> 00:30:28,000
It takes time.
It takes time to develop those

586
00:30:28,000 –> 00:30:30,160
bad ways of thinking and the
good ways of thinking.

587
00:30:30,640 –> 00:30:34,840
And once you get those new neuro
pathways going, you will

588
00:30:34,840 –> 00:30:38,960
continually have them going
amidst your circumstances.

589
00:30:39,040 –> 00:30:40,760
And I think that’s why I’m so
passionate about healing.

590
00:30:40,760 –> 00:30:44,200
I’m like, I feel so healed.
It doesn’t matter what my

591
00:30:44,200 –> 00:30:46,520
circumstances look like.
I don’t want to go through

592
00:30:46,520 –> 00:30:47,920
hardships.
I don’t think anyone does.

593
00:30:47,920 –> 00:30:49,960
No one’s raising their hand
saying yes, let me go through a

594
00:30:49,960 –> 00:30:53,680
hardship.
But because of the hardships,

595
00:30:53,680 –> 00:30:56,480
the perseverance and the
character changes and the mind

596
00:30:56,480 –> 00:31:01,480
renewal, I can look now and I I
just see life differently than I

597
00:31:01,480 –> 00:31:04,240
could before.
I would encourage you with this.

598
00:31:04,640 –> 00:31:11,680
It is actually possible to have
joy despite your circumstances

599
00:31:12,200 –> 00:31:15,600
because joy’s a person.
It’s not just a feeling.

600
00:31:17,200 –> 00:31:21,040
Makes me think of Paul’s passage
where he says I’ve learned the

601
00:31:21,040 –> 00:31:25,840
secret to being content in any
and every situation because we

602
00:31:26,200 –> 00:31:30,360
have our boundaries of this is
situations in which I can

603
00:31:30,360 –> 00:31:32,720
experience joy and hope and
peace and love.

604
00:31:33,360 –> 00:31:36,520
And these are situations in
which I can experience it.

605
00:31:36,520 –> 00:31:40,080
It’s impossible to experience it
and will create these boundaries

606
00:31:40,680 –> 00:31:46,200
and say unless God does this, I
can’t be OK.

607
00:31:46,920 –> 00:31:49,440
And meanwhile, scriptures filled
with individuals who went

608
00:31:49,440 –> 00:31:54,400
through a lot of hard stuff that
came to discover God in the

609
00:31:54,400 –> 00:31:58,520
midst, some of them thrown into
what should have been guaranteed

610
00:31:58,520 –> 00:32:01,280
death.
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego

611
00:32:01,680 –> 00:32:05,480
hanging out in the fire with
this 4th figure and not getting

612
00:32:05,480 –> 00:32:08,480
burned at all.
You know, again, that curiosity

613
00:32:08,480 –> 00:32:14,120
can position us to be honest
around what we want to happen.

614
00:32:14,480 –> 00:32:20,160
God, I’m tired of this pain.
But then to be open to Ephesians

615
00:32:20,160 –> 00:32:22,880
320, which is to Him.
He’s able to do immeasurably

616
00:32:22,880 –> 00:32:25,200
more than we’re asking for
imagining.

617
00:32:25,600 –> 00:32:29,880
And So what if sometimes we are
asking for something, we are

618
00:32:29,880 –> 00:32:34,440
imagining something, and God is
in his loving nature saying, I

619
00:32:34,440 –> 00:32:38,160
hear that, but I’m trying to do
more.

620
00:32:38,920 –> 00:32:41,080
And so there’s this thread
through everything you’ve shared

621
00:32:41,560 –> 00:32:45,440
where the end result, the
purpose of healing, is not

622
00:32:45,440 –> 00:32:51,160
simply to get better, but it is
to be in growing relationship

623
00:32:51,680 –> 00:32:53,000
with God.
With our.

624
00:32:53,040 –> 00:32:59,040
Creator with our Father.
So when you think about how you

625
00:32:59,080 –> 00:33:03,720
understood relationship with God
back as a kid and you really

626
00:33:03,720 –> 00:33:07,720
wanted to go to church and be a
good Christian versus how you

627
00:33:07,720 –> 00:33:12,800
are coming to everyday, learn
more deeply what that actually

628
00:33:12,800 –> 00:33:15,520
means.
What are some of the most

629
00:33:15,520 –> 00:33:18,400
surprising elements between
those two things?

630
00:33:20,080 –> 00:33:23,680
I think there was an element of
really child likeness right?

631
00:33:23,680 –> 00:33:26,600
Like it, I’m just like, I go to
church on Sundays.

632
00:33:26,640 –> 00:33:29,720
I go every Sunday, which was way
more than I didn’t know other

633
00:33:29,720 –> 00:33:32,960
people who did that.
So I thought I was good to go.

634
00:33:33,680 –> 00:33:36,360
And then I learned you could
hear God’s voice and like, hold

635
00:33:36,360 –> 00:33:39,440
up, hold up.
And then they’re from that point

636
00:33:39,440 –> 00:33:41,800
to now.
I mean, now we’re like 15 years

637
00:33:41,800 –> 00:33:46,000
in and it’s like, yeah, I can
hear God’s voice.

638
00:33:46,160 –> 00:33:49,400
But it’s not always just for me.
It’s a lot of times it’s for

639
00:33:49,400 –> 00:33:52,720
someone else and I, I was
actually praying this the other

640
00:33:52,720 –> 00:33:55,800
day and I don’t know if I
remember exactly what I felt in

641
00:33:55,800 –> 00:34:00,840
my spirit, but I was praying
God, let my connection to you be

642
00:34:00,840 –> 00:34:02,880
a moment of influence for
someone else.

643
00:34:04,120 –> 00:34:05,680
OK, We have different gifts of
the Spirit, right?

644
00:34:05,680 –> 00:34:08,800
We have different gifts of the
body of Christ and everyone has

645
00:34:08,800 –> 00:34:10,560
a different gifts.
And I, I know that there’s some

646
00:34:10,560 –> 00:34:14,679
people that actually have a gift
of influence and like they could

647
00:34:14,679 –> 00:34:16,960
connect you to people you need
to be connected to.

648
00:34:16,960 –> 00:34:21,600
They could somehow influence
could help you grow in your

649
00:34:21,600 –> 00:34:23,960
business in your life.
However, and sometimes I’m

650
00:34:23,960 –> 00:34:26,080
praying for that because I don’t
think I have that right now.

651
00:34:26,400 –> 00:34:28,320
And I’m praying for God to
connect me with people with

652
00:34:28,320 –> 00:34:30,920
gifts of influence.
And as I was praying the other

653
00:34:30,920 –> 00:34:36,480
day, I was like, God let my
connection with you be a gift of

654
00:34:36,520 –> 00:34:39,080
influence to those I’m
connected.

655
00:34:39,760 –> 00:34:43,480
And that was just a new way of
looking at it like I have a way

656
00:34:43,480 –> 00:34:45,520
to pray for you that you can’t
pray for you.

657
00:34:46,080 –> 00:34:50,320
I could hear God’s voice for you
so specifically so on target

658
00:34:50,600 –> 00:34:52,880
that it would just change the
trajectory of your life.

659
00:34:52,880 –> 00:34:55,080
Maybe you know, right, it’ll
bring the healing that you need.

660
00:34:55,080 –> 00:34:57,520
It’ll be whatever it is that in
that moment that God wants to

661
00:34:57,520 –> 00:35:00,560
talked about.
And whenever you think about it

662
00:35:00,560 –> 00:35:03,920
that way, you remember that the
gifts and calling are not really

663
00:35:03,920 –> 00:35:07,320
just about you at all.
They’re really for everyone

664
00:35:07,320 –> 00:35:08,720
else, is really for everyone
else.

665
00:35:08,720 –> 00:35:11,360
And you could steward that so
well whenever you remember.

666
00:35:11,680 –> 00:35:13,800
This is God’s heart.
He wants us to be in

667
00:35:13,800 –> 00:35:15,520
relationship with him.
And so now I’m like, my

668
00:35:15,520 –> 00:35:19,160
relationship with God looks
like, how can my relationship

669
00:35:19,160 –> 00:35:20,840
with him actually benefit
someone else?

670
00:35:21,480 –> 00:35:23,280
It’s a lot different.
It’s a lot different way of

671
00:35:23,280 –> 00:35:25,240
thinking when I was seven years
old, for sure.

672
00:35:26,280 –> 00:35:30,800
And it’s a very different way of
thinking than is the default for

673
00:35:30,800 –> 00:35:34,960
humanity, right?
Our default is self preservation

674
00:35:35,120 –> 00:35:39,200
and you know, we ultimately will
look out for ourselves.

675
00:35:39,760 –> 00:35:42,360
And yet when you were talking
about calling, and this was

676
00:35:42,360 –> 00:35:47,120
something that actually came up
in a recent conversation, that

677
00:35:47,120 –> 00:35:51,840
idea that calling isn’t
necessarily this vocation or

678
00:35:51,840 –> 00:35:54,680
this project.
It is at its very core, what

679
00:35:54,680 –> 00:35:57,560
Jesus said was the greatest
commandments to love God and

680
00:35:57,560 –> 00:36:01,560
love others.
And what you just described and

681
00:36:01,560 –> 00:36:05,440
what you’ve been describing are
those things being embodied.

682
00:36:05,480 –> 00:36:10,240
When we’re praying for healing
simply because we want to be in

683
00:36:10,240 –> 00:36:13,000
a better situation, but we’re
not really thinking about God in

684
00:36:13,000 –> 00:36:18,120
it, we find this misalignment.
But when we shift to wanting to

685
00:36:18,120 –> 00:36:21,920
connect with God and know him,
suddenly we’re living into love

686
00:36:21,920 –> 00:36:23,800
God.
Even if we wouldn’t phrase it

687
00:36:23,800 –> 00:36:25,160
that way, we wouldn’t know it
that way.

688
00:36:25,160 –> 00:36:28,080
We’re just like, I’m just
praying to God and then you just

689
00:36:28,080 –> 00:36:32,160
demonstrated this love others
peace that you know, you have

690
00:36:32,160 –> 00:36:35,200
the opportunity to just use
this, you know, magic power

691
00:36:35,200 –> 00:36:38,640
prayer just for yourself.
But you are actually saying no,

692
00:36:38,640 –> 00:36:42,360
what if this is for others?
And so love God and love others

693
00:36:42,360 –> 00:36:47,240
is throughout Scripture, but we
forget that it needs to also

694
00:36:47,240 –> 00:36:51,520
really be throughout our lives.
And the reason we miss it is we

695
00:36:51,520 –> 00:36:53,880
have a very limited
understanding of love loving

696
00:36:53,880 –> 00:36:55,800
God, loving others.
It just means like doing nice

697
00:36:55,800 –> 00:36:58,960
things and, you know, doing good
things.

698
00:36:58,960 –> 00:37:02,600
And you’ve just described it
actually being about our

699
00:37:02,600 –> 00:37:06,480
positioning as our orientation
towards God and towards others.

700
00:37:07,080 –> 00:37:11,880
And it speaks into how we were
created, that the reason we’re

701
00:37:11,880 –> 00:37:14,960
told to love God and love others
is because we are created to be

702
00:37:14,960 –> 00:37:18,160
in relationship with God and to
be in relationship with others.

703
00:37:18,320 –> 00:37:21,400
Which is why I’m not surprised
that your prayer journey has LED

704
00:37:21,400 –> 00:37:24,200
you to a place where you’re
like, Oh, my life is for others.

705
00:37:24,200 –> 00:37:27,960
Like it’s we were designed for
connection, not isolation.

706
00:37:29,040 –> 00:37:32,720
Let’s say somebody’s hearing all
this and they’re thinking, this

707
00:37:32,720 –> 00:37:37,120
sounds great, but I don’t feel
like I have faith like you.

708
00:37:37,120 –> 00:37:40,480
I don’t feel like I understand
God very well.

709
00:37:40,480 –> 00:37:43,560
Like this all seems very
inaccessible to me.

710
00:37:43,840 –> 00:37:47,720
Or maybe someone saying, even if
it was accessible, I have no

711
00:37:47,720 –> 00:37:50,320
bandwidth.
What is a simple way somebody

712
00:37:50,320 –> 00:37:52,640
can step into what you’re
sharing?

713
00:37:54,560 –> 00:37:56,920
Well, that was kind of two
different scenarios there.

714
00:37:56,920 –> 00:37:58,760
OK, so if you don’t have
bandwidth, that’s a whole

715
00:37:58,760 –> 00:38:00,520
another thing.
Let’s go there in just a second.

716
00:38:00,960 –> 00:38:03,520
But if you’re just thinking it,
you don’t know how to do it.

717
00:38:04,240 –> 00:38:09,520
My first thought for you is, OK,
good, Go find someone who does.

718
00:38:10,320 –> 00:38:13,280
I know that that’s true in my
life, like whenever I wanted to

719
00:38:13,280 –> 00:38:16,680
learn how to count macros, I had
to go research what is a macro?

720
00:38:17,520 –> 00:38:19,480
I, I didn’t know.
I don’t know what I didn’t know.

721
00:38:19,480 –> 00:38:21,120
And I felt God calling me to do
it.

722
00:38:21,120 –> 00:38:25,240
It was a, it was a whole divine
encounter where I knew, I knew

723
00:38:25,240 –> 00:38:26,880
that I was fighting.
I was like, I don’t want to

724
00:38:26,880 –> 00:38:28,920
learn how to count macros.
God, I don’t want to learn

725
00:38:28,920 –> 00:38:31,280
another thing.
And he made it really evident I

726
00:38:31,280 –> 00:38:32,800
need to learn how to count
macros.

727
00:38:32,960 –> 00:38:34,120
Well, first I had to go
research.

728
00:38:34,120 –> 00:38:36,440
What is a macro?
So what I’m saying is you need

729
00:38:36,440 –> 00:38:39,560
someone else in your life.
It’s OK to not know.

730
00:38:39,720 –> 00:38:43,240
It’s OK to have to go research.
It’s OK to go find someone else

731
00:38:43,240 –> 00:38:47,120
to do life with.
It’s OK to not be dependent on

732
00:38:47,120 –> 00:38:49,000
yourself.
There was one particular

733
00:38:49,000 –> 00:38:52,320
breakthrough in my life I was
looking for, and I think it went

734
00:38:52,320 –> 00:38:54,000
two years trying to pray
through.

735
00:38:54,200 –> 00:38:56,600
I was like, I can read the
Bible, I could pray, I can hear

736
00:38:56,600 –> 00:38:58,600
God’s voice.
I don’t need to tell anyone, and

737
00:38:58,600 –> 00:39:01,160
I definitely don’t want to tell
anyone what my struggle was.

738
00:39:01,840 –> 00:39:04,800
And so I didn’t.
But I never got free.

739
00:39:04,800 –> 00:39:09,040
And two years in, I was just in
a very isolated environment with

740
00:39:09,040 –> 00:39:12,600
a couple of close friends.
And so I mentioned it and when

741
00:39:12,600 –> 00:39:15,840
you know, I had instant freedom,
they knew exactly what I needed.

742
00:39:16,640 –> 00:39:19,720
And like, so like community
heals, like the body heals the

743
00:39:19,720 –> 00:39:21,400
body, the body of Christ heals
the body of Christ.

744
00:39:21,400 –> 00:39:24,040
So if you have something, you
want to learn how to hear God’s

745
00:39:24,040 –> 00:39:26,280
voice, you want to learn how to
walk in healing, you want to

746
00:39:26,280 –> 00:39:28,560
learn how to pray different
prayers, you need to be around

747
00:39:28,560 –> 00:39:29,800
someone else who knows how to do
that.

748
00:39:30,800 –> 00:39:33,280
OK, so the other side of this is
you said, well, what if I don’t

749
00:39:33,280 –> 00:39:37,240
have the bandwidth for this?
OK, I, I kind of love this

750
00:39:37,240 –> 00:39:40,040
question because here’s this is
one of the things that I’m

751
00:39:40,040 –> 00:39:45,080
really passionate about is man,
ask a busy person to do one more

752
00:39:45,080 –> 00:39:46,840
thing and, and guess what?
They’ll do it.

753
00:39:48,120 –> 00:39:50,120
Why?
Because they’ve learned how to

754
00:39:50,120 –> 00:39:52,160
organize their life.
They’ve learned how to stack

755
00:39:52,160 –> 00:39:55,240
routines.
They’ve learned how to not let

756
00:39:55,240 –> 00:39:57,800
things organize them, but they
organize them.

757
00:39:57,800 –> 00:40:01,320
And I’m raising my hand to that.
Like I, I’ve got my hand in

758
00:40:01,320 –> 00:40:04,880
every pot that you can think of
and I’m still have plenty of

759
00:40:04,880 –> 00:40:07,080
free time.
I’m homeschooling kids, I’m

760
00:40:07,080 –> 00:40:09,000
running ministries, I’m running
a business.

761
00:40:09,000 –> 00:40:12,120
I’m.
I’m everywhere, but it also like

762
00:40:12,720 –> 00:40:16,160
I’m, I’m great.
And I say that because I I like

763
00:40:16,160 –> 00:40:18,840
to teach you how to OK, here’s
four ways you can start hearing

764
00:40:18,840 –> 00:40:21,840
God’s voice, Bible worship,
prayer and community.

765
00:40:22,720 –> 00:40:25,960
If you infuse those four things
into your everyday life or

766
00:40:26,280 –> 00:40:28,880
mostly every day, you’ll start
hearing God’s voice more

767
00:40:28,880 –> 00:40:30,960
regularly.
And I like to do that by

768
00:40:30,960 –> 00:40:34,000
stacking routine.
So for instance, I listen to a

769
00:40:34,000 –> 00:40:37,280
Bible and one year plan while I
unload the dishwasher.

770
00:40:38,200 –> 00:40:42,240
Then I instantly press play on a
worship song while I’m making

771
00:40:42,240 –> 00:40:45,960
breakfast for my kids.
Then I go straight to my prayer

772
00:40:45,960 –> 00:40:47,640
closet.
So like I have an order of

773
00:40:47,640 –> 00:40:50,200
events as seven days a week.
This is I’ve just been doing

774
00:40:50,200 –> 00:40:52,640
this for years and doesn’t even
feel like a checklist.

775
00:40:52,640 –> 00:40:55,240
It feels like a love list.
This is this is what I do.

776
00:40:55,800 –> 00:40:57,320
I do it because I know there’s
fruit from it.

777
00:40:57,320 –> 00:41:01,400
I do it because I I love Jesus.
I do it because I don’t know

778
00:41:01,400 –> 00:41:02,280
why.
Why do you eat?

779
00:41:02,280 –> 00:41:04,280
Why do you breathe?
Like that’s how it feels about

780
00:41:04,280 –> 00:41:05,360
that.
Like this is just part of my

781
00:41:05,360 –> 00:41:06,920
life.
But it started with stacking

782
00:41:06,920 –> 00:41:08,680
routines.
It started with like when I have

783
00:41:08,680 –> 00:41:11,240
my coffee, I’ll have my Bible
something like stack something

784
00:41:11,240 –> 00:41:13,560
you doing every day with the
thing.

785
00:41:14,080 –> 00:41:17,760
And so to say you don’t have
capacity is like, well, you do.

786
00:41:17,760 –> 00:41:20,280
You just don’t know where it is.
So go find someone to help you

787
00:41:20,680 –> 00:41:23,120
figure out how to add it in in
your day.

788
00:41:23,280 –> 00:41:24,920
That’s in step one of the hill
with God broker.

789
00:41:24,920 –> 00:41:28,000
I’m not trying to like sell my
stuff here, but that’s what I do

790
00:41:28,000 –> 00:41:31,800
is I help people learn how to
hear God’s voice by healing and

791
00:41:31,800 –> 00:41:34,920
adding in these everyday things.
It doesn’t have to be

792
00:41:34,920 –> 00:41:38,880
overwhelming.
When you just noted, this is

793
00:41:38,880 –> 00:41:41,760
something that you are
passionate about and that you

794
00:41:41,760 –> 00:41:45,040
have created resources around,
so if somebody wanted to go

795
00:41:45,040 –> 00:41:47,520
deeper and connect with what you
were doing, how could they do

796
00:41:47,520 –> 00:41:49,880
so?
Yeah, you know, I would, I would

797
00:41:49,880 –> 00:41:52,200
love if you would join the Heal
with God workshop.

798
00:41:52,440 –> 00:41:54,880
Like I said, I love hearing
God’s voice to help people heal.

799
00:41:54,880 –> 00:41:56,440
And I do this for free every
month.

800
00:41:56,840 –> 00:42:00,040
I have a hourly workshop that’s
free, no cost.

801
00:42:00,320 –> 00:42:02,640
Go to healwithgodworkshop.com
and you can sign up for that.

802
00:42:02,640 –> 00:42:05,280
And what I do is I take you
through a three-step prayer

803
00:42:05,280 –> 00:42:09,840
method to take your symptom and
get down to the bottom of what’s

804
00:42:09,880 –> 00:42:12,160
really the problem.
I teach you the framework and

805
00:42:12,160 –> 00:42:15,640
you’ll be able to leave knowing
exactly how to pray through and

806
00:42:15,640 –> 00:42:19,280
get to the root of the problem.
And so then you’re symptom can

807
00:42:19,280 –> 00:42:20,800
be a clue instead of a
conclusion.

808
00:42:21,200 –> 00:42:24,160
So go to healwithgodworkshop.com
and you can sign up for that.

809
00:42:24,360 –> 00:42:26,680
That happens every month.
I have a live workshop every

810
00:42:26,680 –> 00:42:28,520
month.
That’s great and the price is

811
00:42:28,520 –> 00:42:31,680
right.
That’s right, come on, no cost.

812
00:42:31,720 –> 00:42:34,840
And also I have Heal with God
podcast, so you can always go

813
00:42:34,840 –> 00:42:36,240
listen to hours of free training
over there.

814
00:42:36,240 –> 00:42:38,880
If you love podcasts, you can
find me on another podcast

815
00:42:38,880 –> 00:42:41,160
called Heal with God.
And as we close out, is there

816
00:42:41,160 –> 00:42:43,920
anything else that God’s putting
in your heart that you feel led

817
00:42:43,920 –> 00:42:47,280
to share?
I guess I just would go back to

818
00:42:47,280 –> 00:42:50,200
you don’t have to keep managing
what Jesus died for you to be

819
00:42:50,200 –> 00:42:53,000
free of.
I did that for far too long and

820
00:42:53,000 –> 00:42:56,200
my heart kind of bleeds for
those who are just sitting back

821
00:42:56,200 –> 00:42:58,320
and they’re like, well, I did
pray.

822
00:42:58,320 –> 00:43:01,520
I did my best, I prayed, I went
to the altar, I I did all the

823
00:43:01,520 –> 00:43:05,960
things I know to do and I would
champion you to say, we pray one

824
00:43:05,960 –> 00:43:08,200
more time.
We pray again tomorrow.

825
00:43:08,240 –> 00:43:10,520
We pray again tomorrow.
We pray different prayer.

826
00:43:11,280 –> 00:43:13,920
Will you try a different prayer?
Because there are different ways

827
00:43:13,920 –> 00:43:16,280
to converse with God and get
down to the root of that

828
00:43:16,280 –> 00:43:17,640
struggle.
You don’t have to live like

829
00:43:17,640 –> 00:43:18,760
that.
You don’t have to.

830
00:43:18,760 –> 00:43:20,880
You don’t have to manage what
Jesus already died for you to

831
00:43:20,880 –> 00:43:45,240
have the abundant life for.
In Psalm 81, verses 6 through

832
00:43:45,240 –> 00:43:50,320
16, Asaph says this.
I removed the burden from their

833
00:43:50,320 –> 00:43:53,520
shoulders.
Their hands were set free from

834
00:43:53,520 –> 00:43:57,040
the basket.
In your distress, you called,

835
00:43:57,040 –> 00:44:01,240
and I rescued you.
I answered you out of the

836
00:44:01,240 –> 00:44:05,080
thundercloud.
I tested you at the waters of

837
00:44:05,080 –> 00:44:10,080
Meribah.
Hear me, my people, and I will

838
00:44:10,080 –> 00:44:13,640
warn you if you would only
listen to me.

839
00:44:13,640 –> 00:44:17,480
Israel, you shall have no
foreign God among you.

840
00:44:18,120 –> 00:44:20,520
You shall not worship any God
other than me.

841
00:44:21,520 –> 00:44:26,200
I am the Lord your God who
brought you up out of Egypt.

842
00:44:27,040 –> 00:44:30,320
Open wide your mouth and I will
fill it.

843
00:44:31,680 –> 00:44:34,440
But my people would not listen
to me.

844
00:44:35,320 –> 00:44:39,960
Israel would not submit to me.
So I gave them over to their

845
00:44:39,960 –> 00:44:43,440
stubborn hearts to follow their
own devices.

846
00:44:44,920 –> 00:44:50,200
If my people would only listen
to me, if Israel would only

847
00:44:50,200 –> 00:44:55,000
follow my ways, how quickly I
would subdue their enemies and

848
00:44:55,000 –> 00:44:59,040
turn my hand against their foes.
Those who hate the Lord would

849
00:44:59,040 –> 00:45:02,000
cringe before him, and their
punishment would last forever.

850
00:45:03,000 –> 00:45:07,360
But you would be fed with the
finest of wheat, with honey from

851
00:45:07,360 –> 00:45:09,560
the rock.
I would satisfy you.

852
00:45:11,080 –> 00:45:13,800
This year I have been working
chronologically through

853
00:45:13,800 –> 00:45:17,200
scripture, and I’ve spent a lot
of time hearing an unfortunate

854
00:45:17,200 –> 00:45:19,920
common marker of God’s chosen
people.

855
00:45:20,560 –> 00:45:23,160
He would call out to them, but
eventually they would stop

856
00:45:23,160 –> 00:45:25,680
listening.
He would tell them the ways to

857
00:45:25,680 –> 00:45:29,320
experience full life and they
would reject them for the ways

858
00:45:29,320 –> 00:45:33,000
they wanted to live.
He would put boundaries in place

859
00:45:33,000 –> 00:45:36,520
to protect them and they would
push through those boundaries

860
00:45:36,720 –> 00:45:39,520
and experience harm.
And they would land in this

861
00:45:39,520 –> 00:45:43,280
cycle of calling out to God,
calling out to God, and God

862
00:45:43,280 –> 00:45:46,440
would listen to them and God
would save them and restore

863
00:45:46,440 –> 00:45:48,400
them.
And then they would stop

864
00:45:48,400 –> 00:45:51,920
listening to God, as verse 12
puts, that they would go back to

865
00:45:51,920 –> 00:45:54,760
their own stubborn hearts to
follow their own devices.

866
00:45:55,200 –> 00:45:58,640
And harm would come to them and
they would cry out to God, and

867
00:45:58,640 –> 00:46:01,760
God would hear them, and God
would restore them, and then

868
00:46:01,760 –> 00:46:06,200
they’d stop listening to God for
so many of the people at that

869
00:46:06,200 –> 00:46:09,400
time.
And honestly, in our time, we

870
00:46:09,400 –> 00:46:13,320
are most ready to listen to God
when we really want something.

871
00:46:14,480 –> 00:46:19,000
But are we really listening?
Are we listening to hear what He

872
00:46:19,000 –> 00:46:22,320
really wants to say?
Or are we only listening for

873
00:46:22,320 –> 00:46:26,200
what we want to hear?
In my own spiritual walk, I’ve

874
00:46:26,200 –> 00:46:29,640
had to learn to be honest about
the ways that I’m not really

875
00:46:29,640 –> 00:46:32,760
listening for God.
There are some areas that I am

876
00:46:32,760 –> 00:46:35,520
truly crying out to God to do
something.

877
00:46:36,040 –> 00:46:38,960
And the most humbling moments
are the ones where I realize

878
00:46:39,040 –> 00:46:42,400
God’s already responded, I just
didn’t like what He said.

879
00:46:43,120 –> 00:46:46,080
As I shared in my devotionals,
rejecting hope no longer and

880
00:46:46,080 –> 00:46:49,240
rejecting joy no longer.
Sometimes He is offering the

881
00:46:49,240 –> 00:46:52,960
very thing that I need, but
because it’s not the way that I

882
00:46:52,960 –> 00:46:57,360
want it, I ignore it.
And I’m going to be honest with

883
00:46:57,360 –> 00:47:02,160
you, I’ve tried to fix this
multiple times over and over and

884
00:47:02,160 –> 00:47:06,720
over for years.
What I’ve come to realize is my

885
00:47:06,720 –> 00:47:10,120
ability to listen is always
going to be limited.

886
00:47:10,760 –> 00:47:14,560
My tendency to get distracted
will always be present.

887
00:47:15,760 –> 00:47:19,560
And thank goodness Jesus said
that he sent a helper and an

888
00:47:19,560 –> 00:47:22,880
advocate.
In other words, if I really want

889
00:47:22,880 –> 00:47:26,080
to listen to God, then I need
the Spirit to help me.

890
00:47:27,320 –> 00:47:33,280
Scripture gives great tactics,
repetition being still, creating

891
00:47:33,280 –> 00:47:36,760
markers for remembrance.
But the people Asaph wrote for

892
00:47:36,760 –> 00:47:40,640
had these things as well.
Having all the knowledge and all

893
00:47:40,640 –> 00:47:44,680
the tools and all the tactics is
not enough to be able to truly,

894
00:47:44,880 –> 00:47:47,200
humbly listen to the God of
creation.

895
00:47:48,000 –> 00:47:52,200
And yet He invites us to listen.
He calls us to listen.

896
00:47:53,000 –> 00:47:56,480
And knowing our limited ability,
He has given a spirit to help

897
00:47:56,480 –> 00:48:00,720
us, to advocate for us, so on us
to be honest, to own that we

898
00:48:00,720 –> 00:48:04,440
need that help, and then to
learn how to defer to the

899
00:48:04,440 –> 00:48:07,280
Spirit’s guidance.
And the good news is, is you

900
00:48:07,280 –> 00:48:09,160
don’t need to be a theologian to
do this.

901
00:48:09,640 –> 00:48:12,240
You simply have to be willing
and then step in.

902
00:48:13,080 –> 00:48:16,200
It could be as simple as this.
When you’re in your hardship,

903
00:48:16,640 –> 00:48:20,800
quiet your mind and heart and
then say, Holy Spirit, help me

904
00:48:20,880 –> 00:48:23,520
to hear.
And you don’t have to limit this

905
00:48:23,520 –> 00:48:26,680
prayer to hardship.
And as Spirit LED, listening

906
00:48:26,880 –> 00:48:31,400
becomes a marker of each day.
Ask yourself, where did you see

907
00:48:31,400 –> 00:48:31,800
God?