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Scripture invites.
Us to love the Lord our God with

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all our heart, mind, soul and
strength and.

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It really seems like God.
Wants us to focus.

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On that mind.
Piece for a little bit.

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This is the third episode in a.
Row since coming back to

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recorded conversations.
That the topic has focused on

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our brains, our logic, our
understanding.

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And how we can.
Navigate that as mere humans or

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be spirit LED.
And utilizing this unique gift

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God has given us.
As with the past two guests,

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Doug L has experienced God
through his mind, yet the.

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Journey.
There was neither quick.

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Nor easy, at one point
considering himself.

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An atheist, nothing could prove
to him that God existed.

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Now, science itself constantly
reveals the reality of God to

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Doug and inspired him to share
those realities with others.

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For many, science and
Christianity are incompatible,

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if that’s a topic you’ve been
wrestling with.

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This conversation.
With Doug might encourage you.

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You’re listening to episode 241
of the Where Did You See God

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podcast.
Father God, I just want to thank

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you that you are God.
And you are good.

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And for your wisdom and bringing
about these conversations.

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And I thank you for this
opportunity for Doug and I to

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connect.
And we are both coming to the

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table open to whatever you want
to do.

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So we just say Holy Spirit,
move, guide our words.

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Our questions, our thoughts,
our.

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Responses and and all this, I
just pray that you are honored

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and glorified and we thank you
in advance for how you can do

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immeasurably more through simple
recording like this.

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I just pray in most holy and
precious name, Amen, Amen.

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Well, Doug, I’m really intrigued
by what God might be bringing

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about in this conversation
because I recently restarted the

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podcast from an unplanned hiatus
and this is the third recorded

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conversation.
And the last two guests, their

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heart and focus was very much on
how we can use our minds, our

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brains, our intellect, our logic
to get closer to God, which is

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something I know is a part of
your story as well, which is

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making me wondering, God, what
are you doing here in the last

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three episodes?
Having this common thread and

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who knows where our conversation
will go.

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But I am intrigued by God
bringing us together and what he

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has in store.
But before we start talking,

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what would you want people to
know about who you are?

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First of all, let me say it’s a
honor to be on your show.

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Been looking forward to it.
So thank you and thank you for

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what you do.
I think the important thing that

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people should know about me is
that I used to be an atheist and

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the scientific evidence for God
overwhelmed me.

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Think God grabs different people
in different ways, and my road

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to faith is very different.
But I find sharing it helps some

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people.
There’s a lot of people out

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there who think that science is
contrary to God, and that’s not

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just me saying it.
You know, the poles are out

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there, a lot of young people
particularly, but people of all

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ages think that there’s a
conflict between science and

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God, between science and the
Bible.

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I used to think that way, and I
found that is completely false.

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Science actually reveals the
glory of God, the amazing power

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of God.
And so I’m here to share that

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and tell my story.
I’m very curious about that

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piece because you’re right, as
long as I’ve been alive, I’ve

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heard that tension between
science and faith.

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I’d love to hear more about how
you went from one side of the

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spectrum to the other, from
believing that science and faith

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are incompatible to now saying
no, actually, science deepens my

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faith.
That’s a a big expanse.

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So how did you travel that?
Well, it travelled it over

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decades.
I grew up in a Christian

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household, at least I was, you
know, went to Sunday school.

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But when I was in early high
school, I think I read in a

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textbook that life started in a
dirty pond.

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I thought, well, if you don’t
need God to create life, maybe

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this God stuff is contrary to
science.

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The experiments since been
totally discredited and we could

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get into that.
There’s no way to get life

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without the design.
But anyhow, you know, being a

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teenager, being somewhat
rebellious, I turned into a

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pretty snotty atheist pretty
fast.

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I went to MIT, double majored in
math and physics, graduated

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early, you know, and thought I
knew everything.

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Typical young person.
And then when my my son was

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born, now I’m in my early 30s,
Paul, my wife said we need to

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get him baptized, which
surprised me.

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We hadn’t been going to church.
I said, yes, dear, I didn’t need

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that fight.
So we went, of course, and I

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felt something.
But I told myself, you know,

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Doug, you’re a MIT rational guy.
You can’t believe in this stuff

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unless there’s scientific
evidence for it.

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So I started looking.
I don’t think that there really

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was any problem between science
and God.

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I didn’t look at the evidence at
all.

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I’m saying is when I looked at
the evidence, when I started to

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logically sit down, read books,
you know, how did the universe

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get started?
Why are the constants of physics

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just right?
How did life get started?

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Why is the most complex
technology in the universe in

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life?
When I actually examined each of

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those questions and many more,
my faith just got so deep and I

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turned from being, again, a
fairly nasty and pompous atheist

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into a life of more joy and
fulfillment.

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So I came out the other side,
thanks to the grace of God, when

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I’m intrigued by the fact that
it took decades, right?

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Because the way we function is
we think if we come across clear

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information, clear proof, and
that’ll sell it right then and

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there.
So I have two questions around

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this idea.
The 1st is why do you think God

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and his infinite wisdom and
ability chose for you and for

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others to make this a decades
long process rather than just

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downloading everything in a
moment?

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It’s a great question.
The evidence is there and we

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could go over facts for which
there’s no explanation but God.

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But I think God is the ultimate
gentleman.

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He doesn’t force you to believe
he’s there and he’ll keep

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reaching out to you.
But you have to stop pushing him

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away.
And we all push God away for a

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lot of personal reasons.
We’re too busy.

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We claim we don’t really want to
have to read the Bible or pray

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or go to church, you know, and
that jerk lives across the

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street.
I mean, there’s no way we’re

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going to like him.
You know, we even though,

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despite what the Bible, so, so
we push God away and it just

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takes time.
It took me time.

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You know, other people have a
variety of different stories of

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coming to God of of sudden
flashes.

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And I admire them.
I know they’re real, they’re

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sincere, but that’s not my
story.

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I guess maybe took me so long
because I’m such a stubborn

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person, you know, but when you
look at it, there’s just so much

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wonderful evidence.
But I think the hand of God is

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there.
He wants us to choose him not to

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force himself on us.
And that idea of of God being

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the ultimate gentleman is
something I’ve thought about as

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well.
That he could force us, but he

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chooses instead to be patient
with us.

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Which leads to my second
question.

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Because you were on this decades
long journey from saying there

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is no God to saying the evidence
tells me there is a God.

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And you’re not alone in this
place.

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There are so many people that
are currently navigating this

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and it could be hard for
Christians sometimes to know how

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to interact with someone who is
still in the midst of that

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journey.
How is it that we as Christians

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should approach somebody who may
be at the start of a decades

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long journey?
It’s a great question.

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You can’t really argue someone
into faith first.

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Peter 315 Always be prepared to
give a reason for the hope that

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it’s within you, but do so with
gentleness and respect.

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I think that kind of sums it up
when you’re asked, you know, and

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you share, share some of the
reasons for your faith.

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I wish more people would have a
little bit better understanding

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of the science about God,
particularly ministers, because

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I think that would particularly
help the younger generation.

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I found when you, you come
across the skeptic, A frontal

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attack trying to overwhelm them
on a debate is just going to

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harden their position generally.
But you can ask them to be

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skeptical of their skepticism,
you know.

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So how did life get started?
How did all of space and time

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and matter come into existence
in a in a single instant?

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And how are they all connected?
How did time get created?

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That’s general relativity.
OK, Time and matter and space

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all connected.
And when you start looking at

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these questions instead of
approaching them with a

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preconceived idea of what the
smart answer is, it’s just

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overwhelming poll.
So maybe plant questions, ask

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people to think about things in
a gentle way.

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You know, this idea of curiosity
is one that came up in the last

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conversation.
And actually, right before we

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started recording, I saw a quote
from the show Ted Lasso where

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Ted is staying.
Basically, he learned the

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importance of being curious, not
judgmental, and how when we are

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judgmental, it changes how we
engage with the world and how we

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engage with others.
And you shared this in your

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story, right?
There was a period in which you

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were judgmental towards God,
towards faith, towards the the

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concept of religion.
And then at some point you

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became curious, and I would love
to hear one of those early

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moments or one of those big
moments where science suddenly

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showed itself in a new way and
allowed you and your curiosity

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to see God in a new way.
Sure.

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I think the a moment that I
would describe on that is I’m

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flying on an airplane determined
to study the science for the

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existence of God.
And I’ve got this big ultra

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nerdy book with over 1000 pages
on molecular biology, a graduate

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book.
I used to be really good in math

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and graduated early from MIT
again, did three years in

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Graduate School and theoretical
math.

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So I have a fairly good grasp of
number concepts.

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And so I’m reading about how our
bodies have 3D printers in them

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called ribosomes.
These machines in our bodies

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read the DNA code and print out
parts called proteins.

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OK, proteins are machine parts,
and our body builds these by

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snapping together chemical
compounds called amino acids,

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which have a central carbon
atom.

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And basically you snapping
together like child’s blocks

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would snap together.
There’s twenty options at each

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place.
A typical string of blocks is

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maybe 150.
That’s a relatively short

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protein. 150 amino acids.
You take 20 at each spot to the

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150th power.
The odds that you’re going to

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get it right are pretty, pretty
darn small pool.

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And you don’t have to get it
right just once to have life.

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It has to happen thousands of
times.

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And I just looked at the
numbers.

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I’m going to start calculating
things, you know, 20 to the

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150th power to get it right.
And we could get into more exact

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and precise science about the
rarity of functional protein

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sequences.
But I just knew right then that

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God was real, and not just from
a scientific mathematical

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standpoint.
I mean, one person wrote a book

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calling I don’t have enough
faith to be an atheist.

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I think that’s a great title,
which is if you’re, if you’re an

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atheist, you have to believe in
some really crazy things.

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You know, you have to believe
that all of existence came from

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absolutely nothing and there was
no mind behind it.

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You have to believe that life
started by accident and the

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people have studied that
basically say it can’t happen.

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You have to believe in a lot of
crazy stuff.

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But I would say just coming
across the improbability of

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life, that was the one event
that just like, wow.

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Yep.
And even if something doesn’t

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00:13:24,400 –> 00:13:28,200
prove God, at the very least
something like that should for

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00:13:28,200 –> 00:13:31,120
someone to consider the
possibility, right?

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00:13:31,160 –> 00:13:34,840
It it at least shows there is a
scenario in which there is a

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00:13:34,840 –> 00:13:37,680
creator.
And then we could go into it

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00:13:37,680 –> 00:13:40,240
with more open mind as we look
at other things.

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Let’s talk about code, digital
code, which just means

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00:13:44,520 –> 00:13:47,120
information transferred in
different bits.

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You and I are talking by the
miracle of modern computer

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00:13:51,000 –> 00:13:55,320
digital code books or code.
You know, they have letters and

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00:13:55,320 –> 00:13:58,880
spaces and numbers and, you
know, discrete units.

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00:13:59,920 –> 00:14:03,560
Scientists have been studying
the heavens for at least 50

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00:14:03,560 –> 00:14:05,840
years, looking for code from
outer space.

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00:14:06,320 –> 00:14:09,200
It’s called CD search for
extraterrestrial intelligence.

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00:14:09,200 –> 00:14:12,000
They have these huge radio
telescopes fall, and they’re

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00:14:12,000 –> 00:14:14,320
looking for code out there.
Why?

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00:14:14,640 –> 00:14:17,920
Because when they find code,
they’ll know that there’s an

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00:14:17,960 –> 00:14:21,560
alien intelligence out there.
It’s just got to be right.

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00:14:22,120 –> 00:14:24,240
So they’ve been looking for 50
years.

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00:14:24,240 –> 00:14:25,920
They haven’t found any code out
there.

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00:14:26,720 –> 00:14:30,680
Now, what did scientists find in
1953?

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00:14:30,920 –> 00:14:34,920
They found that human beings
have code inside us, that

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00:14:34,920 –> 00:14:36,960
actually all life has code
inside us.

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00:14:36,960 –> 00:14:40,360
It’s called DNA.
And to quote Bill Gates, who

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00:14:40,360 –> 00:14:43,920
knows a little bit about coding,
you certainly made a lot of

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00:14:43,920 –> 00:14:46,880
money off of it.
DNA is like computer code, only

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00:14:46,880 –> 00:14:51,280
far far more advanced than
anything we have ever built. 450

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00:14:51,280 –> 00:14:55,120
scientists worldwide.
The the top scientists did a

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00:14:55,120 –> 00:14:59,360
study of human DNA concluded
probably all functional.

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00:14:59,360 –> 00:15:01,080
We can’t figure out what a lot
of it does.

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00:15:01,080 –> 00:15:03,280
It has at least two layers of
information.

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00:15:03,560 –> 00:15:06,280
Some sections of the code you
can read both backwards and

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00:15:06,280 –> 00:15:09,280
forward.
These are all proven scientific

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00:15:09,280 –> 00:15:11,760
facts.
So the question is, if code can

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00:15:11,760 –> 00:15:17,400
only come from a mind, how did
we get code within us if not

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00:15:17,400 –> 00:15:22,360
from God?
That question at the end, if

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00:15:23,040 –> 00:15:28,200
then if this is this, then how
can this sometimes that can be

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00:15:28,200 –> 00:15:30,960
the thing that trips us up
because we’ve already locked in

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00:15:30,960 –> 00:15:33,160
our if then statement in our
mind.

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00:15:33,520 –> 00:15:36,520
So you were talking about space
and it made me think about how

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00:15:37,200 –> 00:15:42,360
some people look at the
expansive space and they say

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00:15:42,520 –> 00:15:46,400
there is just no way that we’re
the only life that exists in

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00:15:46,400 –> 00:15:48,200
this whole universe.
How could you have this vast

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00:15:48,200 –> 00:15:50,360
universe and we’re the only
life?

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00:15:50,720 –> 00:15:54,880
And there is a logic behind that
and you can pull things from

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00:15:54,880 –> 00:15:57,160
everyday reality to support
that.

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00:15:57,720 –> 00:16:01,360
But when I hear that, where my
mind goes is there is another

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00:16:01,360 –> 00:16:04,520
scenario.
If God did just create life on

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00:16:04,520 –> 00:16:10,320
this one blue rock amongst this
ever expanding expanse, there is

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00:16:10,320 –> 00:16:14,520
a scenario in which He did that
as a display of His power and

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00:16:14,520 –> 00:16:19,360
glory for us that we are looking
up and we can’t even see the end

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00:16:19,360 –> 00:16:21,760
of it right.
So in other words, our

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00:16:21,760 –> 00:16:25,640
perspective can either limit us
or free us.

275
00:16:25,680 –> 00:16:30,800
How we approach perspective can
either position us to learn and

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00:16:30,800 –> 00:16:35,280
experience more or lock us in.
What helped you to be able to

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00:16:35,280 –> 00:16:39,000
release perspectives that locked
you in and what has helped you

278
00:16:39,000 –> 00:16:41,520
to continue to remain open and
curious?

279
00:16:41,920 –> 00:16:46,560
Well, again, it took decades.
This concept that the universe

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00:16:46,560 –> 00:16:48,640
is so big, what a big waste of
space.

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00:16:49,200 –> 00:16:54,400
If we’re the only life is a very
atheist concept says there can’t

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00:16:54,400 –> 00:16:58,000
be anything special and human
beings have been going down that

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00:16:58,000 –> 00:17:01,040
road for thousands of years.
You know, Gee, we’re not

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00:17:01,040 –> 00:17:04,520
special.
Well, maybe we are has sure

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00:17:04,520 –> 00:17:06,119
haven’t found any life out
there.

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00:17:06,119 –> 00:17:10,720
You know, the Psalm 19 first
one, King David tells us the

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00:17:10,720 –> 00:17:12,720
heavens declare the glory of
God.

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00:17:13,839 –> 00:17:18,000
Have you ever been out on a
moonless night where there’s no

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00:17:18,000 –> 00:17:22,920
light pollution where and the
sky is clear and you can see the

290
00:17:22,920 –> 00:17:26,000
Milky Way splitting the heavens
like a river in the sky?

291
00:17:26,680 –> 00:17:28,800
God’s glory is just
overwhelming.

292
00:17:29,920 –> 00:17:31,640
But you’re right.
I mean, it’s a fundamental

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00:17:31,640 –> 00:17:33,840
assumption that’s some people
just make.

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00:17:34,320 –> 00:17:36,160
It’s really hard to change their
view.

295
00:17:36,240 –> 00:17:38,040
You know, there’s a new movie
came out.

296
00:17:38,320 –> 00:17:41,320
It’s called The Story of
Everything came out on April

297
00:17:41,320 –> 00:17:43,480
30th.
It’s put out by a group called

298
00:17:43,480 –> 00:17:46,240
the Discovery Institute.
They published my most recent

299
00:17:46,240 –> 00:17:51,280
book with top scientists talking
about why the theological

300
00:17:51,280 –> 00:17:54,840
explanation just makes the best
sense of the current scientific

301
00:17:54,840 –> 00:17:56,680
data.
It’s pretty powerful.

302
00:17:56,680 –> 00:18:01,040
It’s very well done, but people
approach things with a mindset.

303
00:18:01,440 –> 00:18:04,880
You’re right, I don’t know an
easy answer to turn that around

304
00:18:06,080 –> 00:18:08,760
well.
And what makes it so hard is we

305
00:18:08,760 –> 00:18:10,920
aren’t always aware of what’s
influencing us.

306
00:18:11,000 –> 00:18:14,800
So when you were talking about
the dark sky, no light

307
00:18:14,800 –> 00:18:19,280
pollution, I have seen that, but
it’s very rare because I live in

308
00:18:19,280 –> 00:18:22,440
an urban context.
If I didn’t understand the

309
00:18:22,440 –> 00:18:25,640
concept of light pollution, like
I think of my youngest child,

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00:18:26,160 –> 00:18:28,640
let’s say he goes outside and
every night he looks at the sky.

311
00:18:28,640 –> 00:18:32,800
He wouldn’t make a determination
about the sky, that it is pretty

312
00:18:32,800 –> 00:18:35,960
much mostly black with a few
dots in it.

313
00:18:36,520 –> 00:18:40,200
And I can’t imagine what that
experience will be for him when

314
00:18:40,200 –> 00:18:44,800
he is in an entirely dark place,
miles and miles from light

315
00:18:44,800 –> 00:18:48,480
pollution, and he looks up and
he sees more stars than he can

316
00:18:48,480 –> 00:18:50,680
even fathom.
Not just not even count, but

317
00:18:50,680 –> 00:18:52,920
even fathom comprehending his
mind.

318
00:18:53,680 –> 00:18:58,280
And he would have had no idea
the impact that light pollution

319
00:18:58,280 –> 00:18:59,760
was having.
Why would he know that?

320
00:18:59,760 –> 00:19:03,480
City lights are changing his
ability to see because in his

321
00:19:03,480 –> 00:19:06,320
mind you should be able to see
whatever light is shining and so

322
00:19:06,440 –> 00:19:10,720
we don’t always know what things
are actually influencing us.

323
00:19:11,000 –> 00:19:15,240
What are some of the influences
that you came to recognize

324
00:19:15,240 –> 00:19:19,880
during your decades journey that
you had no idea where impacting

325
00:19:19,880 –> 00:19:25,480
your ability to engage with God?
One of the other key ones is I

326
00:19:25,480 –> 00:19:30,600
started with a belief that the
Bible was largely myth, which

327
00:19:31,560 –> 00:19:35,560
even among Christians, I mean,
would consider the Old Testament

328
00:19:36,360 –> 00:19:41,240
to be mythological in part.
We could talk about the science

329
00:19:41,240 –> 00:19:46,080
of that, but it’s clear Adam and
Eve were real people as modern

330
00:19:46,080 –> 00:19:49,640
genetic evidence for that.
It’s clear that there was a

331
00:19:49,640 –> 00:19:54,360
great flood, The story of Noah
is true, and on and on.

332
00:19:54,360 –> 00:19:59,120
And there are real, real blocks
when people think that science

333
00:19:59,120 –> 00:20:03,760
is contrary to the Bible.
I personally know that this

334
00:20:03,760 –> 00:20:07,200
theory that the universe is
billions of years old, it’s

335
00:20:07,200 –> 00:20:09,640
made-up.
I know that’s controversial, but

336
00:20:09,640 –> 00:20:12,920
we could get into that.
Why radiometric dating like

337
00:20:12,920 –> 00:20:14,880
carbon dating?
Why they make up all these

338
00:20:14,880 –> 00:20:16,800
assumptions to get things to
work?

339
00:20:17,720 –> 00:20:19,720
Dinosaurs used to be called
Dragons.

340
00:20:19,720 –> 00:20:22,920
There’s stories of Dragons in
the Roman records.

341
00:20:22,920 –> 00:20:26,960
There’s two Dragons described in
detail in the book of Job.

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00:20:27,400 –> 00:20:30,720
I would say thinking that the
Bible stories are mythological

343
00:20:30,720 –> 00:20:34,280
is is a problem for a lot of
people, perhaps at a level that

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00:20:34,280 –> 00:20:38,280
they don’t realize.
As one person said to me, when

345
00:20:38,280 –> 00:20:40,040
do you start believing the
Bible?

346
00:20:41,120 –> 00:20:44,280
I think that’s a good question
for every person to ask

347
00:20:44,280 –> 00:20:45,960
themselves.
For many, maybe it’s simple.

348
00:20:45,960 –> 00:20:48,880
I never believed the Bible.
But for a lot of people,

349
00:20:49,360 –> 00:20:52,120
Christians, I mean, you know, if
you’re a Christian, then you

350
00:20:52,120 –> 00:20:56,920
believe the New Testament.
Well, Jesus spoke about Noah and

351
00:20:56,920 –> 00:21:01,120
he used the example in Noah
pretty dramatically actually, as

352
00:21:01,120 –> 00:21:03,880
you recall me, two of the
gospels said, you know, when I

353
00:21:03,880 –> 00:21:07,400
come back next time, guys, I’m
not coming back as this little

354
00:21:07,400 –> 00:21:10,760
baby, OK?
I’m coming back in full power

355
00:21:10,760 –> 00:21:12,840
and glory.
And it’s it’s his quote is as it

356
00:21:12,840 –> 00:21:16,480
was in the days of Noah.
You know, people were carrying

357
00:21:16,480 –> 00:21:18,640
around with their lives and then
it was game over.

358
00:21:18,640 –> 00:21:21,120
He says that’s what it’s going
to be like when I come back.

359
00:21:21,680 –> 00:21:25,960
So, you know, that was a real
person when you actually embrace

360
00:21:25,960 –> 00:21:28,080
and look at.
And it’s very hard in our

361
00:21:28,080 –> 00:21:31,920
current world to look at that
truth because people make fun of

362
00:21:31,920 –> 00:21:34,040
it.
But it’s there and it’s so

363
00:21:34,040 –> 00:21:36,840
wondrous.
I think that’s a problem people

364
00:21:36,840 –> 00:21:40,320
have.
Do you have a favorite science

365
00:21:40,560 –> 00:21:45,000
and the Old Testament example?
Oh, there’s so many.

366
00:21:45,320 –> 00:21:48,320
Where to start?
So I’m writing a new book in the

367
00:21:48,320 –> 00:21:51,280
last chapters called The Angel
in the Assyrians.

368
00:21:52,040 –> 00:21:56,320
Maybe you’ve heard the story.
It’s 701 BC.

369
00:21:57,080 –> 00:22:02,320
The Assyrians have a huge army
outside of Jerusalem and Jewish

370
00:22:02,320 –> 00:22:06,080
king Hezekiah is walled up like
a bird in a cage.

371
00:22:06,720 –> 00:22:10,440
Both the Bible say that and the
Assyrian records say that the

372
00:22:10,440 –> 00:22:13,480
Assyrians are the superpower of
their day.

373
00:22:13,920 –> 00:22:16,080
The Bible has stories of
Samaritans.

374
00:22:16,080 –> 00:22:18,120
The two.
The Jews despised them and that

375
00:22:18,120 –> 00:22:22,480
was that was the 10 northern
tribes and the Assyrians took up

376
00:22:22,480 –> 00:22:27,880
them out 723 BC But then King
Hezekiah stop paying tribute.

377
00:22:27,880 –> 00:22:32,000
So they come back, they
devastate Judah, they conquer 46

378
00:22:32,000 –> 00:22:36,600
towns and this is all both in
the Bible and in the Assyrian

379
00:22:36,600 –> 00:22:39,880
records.
King Hezekiah builds this

380
00:22:40,000 –> 00:22:45,560
enormous tunnel 1700 feet
underground through solid rock

381
00:22:45,840 –> 00:22:48,200
to get water to the city during
the siege.

382
00:22:48,520 –> 00:22:50,280
And you can walk through that
tunnel today.

383
00:22:50,960 –> 00:22:54,080
It’s there.
And then the Bible says an

384
00:22:54,080 –> 00:22:57,440
Angel, the Lord, killed 185,000
Assyrians.

385
00:22:59,120 –> 00:23:02,480
OK, well, we don’t have any
surviving video of that event.

386
00:23:02,680 –> 00:23:04,320
You know, we don’t have any
photos.

387
00:23:04,640 –> 00:23:08,720
But we do know from the Assyrian
records that they never

388
00:23:08,720 –> 00:23:13,680
conquered Jerusalem and
Jerusalem was not the biggest

389
00:23:13,680 –> 00:23:16,000
city they ever faced.
They took out some, took them

390
00:23:16,000 –> 00:23:18,440
three years.
They took out Samaria 20 years

391
00:23:18,440 –> 00:23:22,880
before the capital of Samaria.
So, you know, if you’re open to

392
00:23:22,880 –> 00:23:26,360
the wonder, it’s there.
It really is.

393
00:23:26,360 –> 00:23:29,040
And there’s videos and and
deeper you can get into that.

394
00:23:29,040 –> 00:23:31,800
But I think I love that story
because not a lot of people are

395
00:23:31,800 –> 00:23:34,640
familiar with it.
The story of the Angel of the

396
00:23:34,640 –> 00:23:39,840
Lord saving King Hezekiah.
And it’s in three in the Bible,

397
00:23:39,840 –> 00:23:42,960
three times.
And if the Assyrians had

398
00:23:42,960 –> 00:23:45,960
conquered Jerusalem, they would
have did the same thing which

399
00:23:45,960 –> 00:23:48,360
they did to the Sumerian, the
northern tribes.

400
00:23:48,520 –> 00:23:50,240
They would have destroyed him as
a people.

401
00:23:50,840 –> 00:23:53,720
They would have taken away all
the leaders or killed people and

402
00:23:53,720 –> 00:23:57,360
intermixed other cultures.
And, you know, the Jews as a

403
00:23:57,720 –> 00:24:00,000
separate entity would have
ceased to exist.

404
00:24:00,640 –> 00:24:06,120
So I’d say the Bible’s true.
There’s this idea then of the

405
00:24:06,440 –> 00:24:10,400
unexplainable being a stumbling
block to be able to trust God

406
00:24:10,400 –> 00:24:13,000
with science.
And then you went on this

407
00:24:13,000 –> 00:24:16,840
journey of discovering that
there is actually more that

408
00:24:16,840 –> 00:24:20,040
science can explain.
But I imagine there are still

409
00:24:20,040 –> 00:24:23,280
things that remain
unexplainable, unprovable.

410
00:24:23,640 –> 00:24:27,560
And so how is your relationship
with the unexplainable changed?

411
00:24:28,200 –> 00:24:30,760
Sometimes you have to give God
the benefit of the doubt.

412
00:24:31,040 –> 00:24:34,960
We don’t know how we did it.
One of the problems that some

413
00:24:34,960 –> 00:24:38,360
people perceived as being
insurmountable for my belief

414
00:24:38,360 –> 00:24:42,120
that the universe is thousands
of years old, I believe it’s

415
00:24:42,120 –> 00:24:45,800
about 7500 years old and not
billions of years old, as they

416
00:24:45,800 –> 00:24:47,680
say.
Well, how can we see distance

417
00:24:47,680 –> 00:24:50,120
Starlight?
But what they don’t realize

418
00:24:50,120 –> 00:24:52,360
because it gets kind of
technical, is distance.

419
00:24:52,360 –> 00:24:57,960
Starlight is a huge problem for
proponents of The Big Bang for

420
00:24:57,960 –> 00:25:02,360
three very technical and nerdy
scientific reasons, and mostly

421
00:25:02,360 –> 00:25:04,880
because the universe looks
pretty much the same in every

422
00:25:04,880 –> 00:25:06,640
direction.
It’s the same temperature and

423
00:25:06,640 –> 00:25:08,760
all.
They say, well, when it started,

424
00:25:09,280 –> 00:25:13,440
some huge force ripped it apart.
OK, they call that force

425
00:25:13,440 –> 00:25:15,560
inflation.
They have no idea what it was,

426
00:25:15,560 –> 00:25:19,760
what started it, what ended it.
But the Bible says 11 times God

427
00:25:19,760 –> 00:25:21,600
made the heavens and stretch
them out.

428
00:25:23,000 –> 00:25:27,160
OK, not just made it, made them
and stretch them out 11 times.

429
00:25:27,760 –> 00:25:31,560
And this inflation force, you
know that in one trillionth

430
00:25:31,560 –> 00:25:35,280
trillionth trillionth of a
second, the universe expanded

431
00:25:35,280 –> 00:25:38,560
hugely kind of model
scientifically what we’re

432
00:25:38,560 –> 00:25:41,680
looking at today.
So we don’t know exactly how we

433
00:25:41,680 –> 00:25:46,120
can see the distant Starlight.
We certainly have no clue how

434
00:25:46,120 –> 00:25:49,880
God created time, but we do know
time had a beginning.

435
00:25:50,000 –> 00:25:54,080
That’s a huge modern discovery,
goes back about 100 years now,

436
00:25:54,520 –> 00:25:56,400
that the universe had a
beginning.

437
00:25:56,600 –> 00:26:00,800
When you think about that,
whatever caused the universe to

438
00:26:00,800 –> 00:26:03,640
come into being had to be from
outside the universe.

439
00:26:04,080 –> 00:26:07,880
I’m sorry, but that’s logically
inescapable, you know, because

440
00:26:08,560 –> 00:26:10,520
it wasn’t just that there was no
matter.

441
00:26:10,520 –> 00:26:13,360
There was no time, no space, no
laws of physics.

442
00:26:14,400 –> 00:26:18,600
So what caused that?
You know, one of the things that

443
00:26:18,600 –> 00:26:24,680
I think about often when I’m
thinking about this topic is we

444
00:26:24,720 –> 00:26:30,720
forget how much is unexplainable
even in what we think is clear

445
00:26:30,720 –> 00:26:33,480
and certain.
There are so many moments where

446
00:26:33,480 –> 00:26:35,880
a scientist will come up to
something and say, I don’t know

447
00:26:35,880 –> 00:26:39,840
why this is happening like this
or this happens a certain way

448
00:26:39,840 –> 00:26:42,480
100 times, but now it’s doing
something different.

449
00:26:42,480 –> 00:26:46,200
And I can’t tell you why.
When somebody engages science

450
00:26:46,200 –> 00:26:49,320
with openness and curiosity,
that’s how new things are

451
00:26:49,320 –> 00:26:51,480
discovered.
When somebody engages science

452
00:26:52,000 –> 00:26:55,280
with this restrictive
perspective, that’s when you get

453
00:26:55,280 –> 00:26:59,520
people actually opposing those
who discovered things that now

454
00:26:59,520 –> 00:27:01,360
we look back and say, no, that’s
very clear.

455
00:27:01,600 –> 00:27:04,520
You know, when people start to
say that the Earth is round, it

456
00:27:04,680 –> 00:27:06,920
rotates around the sun and not
the other way around, there was

457
00:27:06,920 –> 00:27:10,040
a lot of resistance to that
because there was this idea that

458
00:27:10,040 –> 00:27:13,520
no, this is how things work.
So what you’re saying is

459
00:27:13,520 –> 00:27:16,720
incorrect.
There is so much that we can’t

460
00:27:16,720 –> 00:27:21,800
explain, and sometimes creating
a grace for that and openness to

461
00:27:21,800 –> 00:27:25,840
that, letting God be God in that
can actually allow us to not be

462
00:27:25,840 –> 00:27:28,760
bound and restricted by our fear
of uncertainty.

463
00:27:28,760 –> 00:27:31,600
Why are we so afraid of the
unexplainable, though?

464
00:27:31,920 –> 00:27:35,800
We want to be in control.
When Adam and Eve rebelled, we

465
00:27:35,800 –> 00:27:39,240
all rebelled in some sense.
We all want to be like God,

466
00:27:40,280 –> 00:27:42,280
right?
And we all want to think we can

467
00:27:42,280 –> 00:27:44,800
understand it.
We can control our own lives.

468
00:27:45,520 –> 00:27:49,600
One of the humbling things is to
realize God’s in control.

469
00:27:49,600 –> 00:27:52,760
You’re not in control, but we
all want to be in control.

470
00:27:52,760 –> 00:27:54,720
We want to understand it, but we
don’t.

471
00:27:55,000 –> 00:27:58,000
We don’t understand really what
matter is.

472
00:27:59,360 –> 00:28:03,520
OK, when you look at the quantum
stuff, what they found is when

473
00:28:03,520 –> 00:28:08,920
you look at an atom, it’s not
really there, OK, it’s it’s

474
00:28:09,080 –> 00:28:13,520
reduces at the finest level, the
foundation of existence into

475
00:28:13,520 –> 00:28:17,760
mathematical formulas of where
something it might take place

476
00:28:18,040 –> 00:28:20,000
according to a certain
probability.

477
00:28:20,240 –> 00:28:22,840
And that field is called quantum
mechanics.

478
00:28:23,200 –> 00:28:27,040
And there are things in quantum
mechanics that have no rational

479
00:28:27,040 –> 00:28:30,120
explanation.
People glaze over when I start

480
00:28:30,120 –> 00:28:32,200
talking about that, said, well,
I don’t understand quantum

481
00:28:32,200 –> 00:28:34,560
mechanics.
Well, I can assure you nobody in

482
00:28:34,560 –> 00:28:38,720
the world understands quantum
mechanics from any sort of

483
00:28:38,720 –> 00:28:41,280
intuitive sense.
They just have incredible

484
00:28:41,280 –> 00:28:43,960
formulas that work.
It’s shocking.

485
00:28:43,960 –> 00:28:46,800
I mean, Albert Einstein found it
shocking.

486
00:28:46,800 –> 00:28:51,760
I mean, and he was the guy who
had the willingness to go

487
00:28:51,760 –> 00:28:55,120
against what all the other
physicists said and to believe

488
00:28:55,120 –> 00:28:58,760
that space could bend and that
time could change.

489
00:28:59,240 –> 00:29:02,240
And that’s how Albert Einstein
became great, You know, theory

490
00:29:02,240 –> 00:29:06,440
of relativity, but the theory of
quantum mechanics that, you

491
00:29:06,440 –> 00:29:10,440
know, life is mathematical.
It gets pretty heavy when you

492
00:29:10,440 –> 00:29:13,440
when you start looking at all of
this, Paul, it it adds up.

493
00:29:13,440 –> 00:29:17,440
But it’s I think you just plant
people doubts in people’s mind

494
00:29:17,440 –> 00:29:20,720
if they’re if they’re stubborn
to it, but it is wondrous.

495
00:29:20,720 –> 00:29:23,760
It’s helped me a lot.
I tell you, I wish I had a more

496
00:29:24,320 –> 00:29:28,240
natural faith.
I think in a way, but my decades

497
00:29:28,240 –> 00:29:31,200
of being a snotty atheist, you
know, still taking time to get

498
00:29:31,200 –> 00:29:35,200
over when even your comment
there that it helped your life a

499
00:29:35,200 –> 00:29:37,960
lot.
You know, as I think through

500
00:29:37,960 –> 00:29:44,760
this, when we have this desire
to be our own God, or for some

501
00:29:44,760 –> 00:29:46,840
people, it might not be that
they want to be a God, they just

502
00:29:46,840 –> 00:29:50,600
don’t want a God over them.
Whatever it is that puts

503
00:29:50,600 –> 00:29:57,080
everything on us to figure out,
to do, meanwhile allowing

504
00:29:57,080 –> 00:30:02,680
ourselves to let God be God,
suddenly it’s on him.

505
00:30:02,680 –> 00:30:06,600
And if he’s limitless, if he can
do anything, suddenly the

506
00:30:06,600 –> 00:30:08,880
impossible, the
incomprehensible, becomes

507
00:30:08,880 –> 00:30:12,120
accessible in a way that we
never could have achieved in and

508
00:30:12,120 –> 00:30:14,920
of ourselves.
So there is this freedom, there

509
00:30:14,920 –> 00:30:17,600
is this opportunity, as Jesus
put it.

510
00:30:18,440 –> 00:30:21,880
He was talking to a body of
people who just knew

511
00:30:22,000 –> 00:30:25,280
intrinsically that you’re born,
you live, and then you die.

512
00:30:25,280 –> 00:30:27,680
And when you die, you’re done.
And maybe there’s something

513
00:30:27,680 –> 00:30:29,720
else, but nobody can figure it
out exactly.

514
00:30:30,240 –> 00:30:34,320
And so people feared death.
They would avoid death.

515
00:30:34,400 –> 00:30:38,960
Even Peter, who was willing to
give his life for Jesus, still

516
00:30:38,960 –> 00:30:42,320
feared death.
And then Jesus demonstrates that

517
00:30:42,320 –> 00:30:45,240
death has lost its sting.
Scripture talks about how death

518
00:30:45,240 –> 00:30:49,560
no longer has power over us.
And so there is this freedom

519
00:30:49,560 –> 00:30:53,600
that can come when we let God be
God and we release the idea of

520
00:30:53,600 –> 00:30:56,240
control.
How are you seeing that play out

521
00:30:56,240 –> 00:31:00,320
now when you look at your life
and how you experience things

522
00:31:00,320 –> 00:31:05,720
like peace, hope, joy, compared
to when you did not want God

523
00:31:05,720 –> 00:31:08,200
around?
Tell me about the quality of

524
00:31:08,200 –> 00:31:10,720
life.
It’s just more wonderful and

525
00:31:10,720 –> 00:31:13,240
more freeing for exactly the
reason she said.

526
00:31:13,760 –> 00:31:16,160
I’m getting old.
I’m in my late 70s.

527
00:31:16,240 –> 00:31:19,960
But I don’t worry about death,
although I do like the Woody

528
00:31:19,960 –> 00:31:22,400
Allen line, you know, which is
I’m not scared to death.

529
00:31:22,400 –> 00:31:24,160
I just don’t want to be there
when it happens.

530
00:31:25,600 –> 00:31:31,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, and a lot of things I

531
00:31:31,560 –> 00:31:34,760
don’t worry about when I have a
problem that’s unsolvable to me,

532
00:31:34,760 –> 00:31:37,360
I, I say, OK, God, this one’s on
you.

533
00:31:37,360 –> 00:31:40,200
I can’t do anything about it,
you know, including a lot of the

534
00:31:40,200 –> 00:31:44,440
crises in the world today.
They’re beyond my capability to

535
00:31:44,440 –> 00:31:48,720
solve, you know, and I don’t
think about money much.

536
00:31:48,880 –> 00:31:51,360
You know, when I was a young
professional, money was fairly

537
00:31:51,360 –> 00:31:54,520
up consuming.
You know, I think it is for a

538
00:31:54,520 –> 00:31:56,560
lot of people.
It’s a tough world out there,

539
00:31:57,120 –> 00:31:59,200
for sure.
There are things you have to

540
00:31:59,200 –> 00:32:02,440
give to God, and it just can
lead to a peace and a calmness

541
00:32:02,640 –> 00:32:05,680
and a joy.
You know, peace of God is beyond

542
00:32:05,680 –> 00:32:07,840
understanding, as the Scripture
says.

543
00:32:09,400 –> 00:32:12,360
You know, there’s this threat of
time through everything that

544
00:32:12,360 –> 00:32:17,160
you’ve shared, your story of it
taking decades to come to this

545
00:32:17,160 –> 00:32:19,640
understanding.
Even while we were talking about

546
00:32:19,640 –> 00:32:25,280
how science works, it took time
for humanity to come to

547
00:32:25,280 –> 00:32:28,040
understand things.
And man, we have such a

548
00:32:28,040 –> 00:32:31,520
resistance to time because going
back to what you noted about our

549
00:32:31,520 –> 00:32:34,560
desire for control, like we want
to understand now.

550
00:32:34,560 –> 00:32:37,960
We want to have clarity now.
We want to have control over

551
00:32:37,960 –> 00:32:41,800
reality now.
But God has given us this gift

552
00:32:41,800 –> 00:32:46,240
of time, and we don’t understand
what a gift it is.

553
00:32:46,240 –> 00:32:48,600
And what you’ve described is
something I’ve heard often is

554
00:32:48,600 –> 00:32:52,960
people who are in their later
years look back and say exactly

555
00:32:52,960 –> 00:32:55,480
what you said.
I used to think this was the

556
00:32:55,480 –> 00:32:57,320
most important thing, but now I
know it’s not.

557
00:32:57,640 –> 00:33:00,640
I used to think that you had to
have financial security, but

558
00:33:00,640 –> 00:33:03,080
suddenly I realized there is
more to life than money.

559
00:33:03,640 –> 00:33:06,760
But it took time because if
somebody just told you those

560
00:33:06,760 –> 00:33:11,040
things, you would have rejected
them because you knew how things

561
00:33:11,040 –> 00:33:14,080
worked.
You were had your experiences,

562
00:33:14,200 –> 00:33:16,240
you had your hopes, you had your
dreams.

563
00:33:17,080 –> 00:33:21,880
How can people get to a place
where they embrace the gift of

564
00:33:21,880 –> 00:33:26,960
time, particularly when what God
wants to do might take decades?

565
00:33:27,800 –> 00:33:31,920
Yeah, I think the time honored
ways are the best.

566
00:33:33,240 –> 00:33:37,400
Read the Bible, go to church,
pray.

567
00:33:38,400 –> 00:33:40,680
Let the word of God seep into
your heart.

568
00:33:41,720 –> 00:33:44,120
It’s more elegant than my words,
that’s for sure.

569
00:33:44,240 –> 00:33:47,720
And you know, Jesus says,
consider the lilies of the

570
00:33:47,720 –> 00:33:51,520
field.
They neither toil nor reap, yet

571
00:33:51,520 –> 00:33:54,720
they’re arrayed fine.
You know, he says, don’t worry

572
00:33:54,720 –> 00:33:56,680
about what you’re going to eat
or what you’re going to wear.

573
00:33:57,920 –> 00:34:01,320
It’s in the Bible.
You have to give up control as a

574
00:34:01,320 –> 00:34:04,400
human being.
And, and that’s hard, you know,

575
00:34:04,680 –> 00:34:07,600
but it’s there.
And I think you have to pray for

576
00:34:07,600 –> 00:34:09,360
faith.
I think faith is a gift.

577
00:34:10,159 –> 00:34:12,360
You can’t argue anybody into
faith.

578
00:34:12,679 –> 00:34:14,520
Some people just don’t want to
believe.

579
00:34:14,520 –> 00:34:16,920
They never will believe.
And you just have to give them

580
00:34:17,040 –> 00:34:20,360
up to God.
You know, that passage you noted

581
00:34:21,000 –> 00:34:25,239
puts a interesting light on this
concept of time as well, because

582
00:34:25,440 –> 00:34:28,760
there is that element of us
being willing to embark on a

583
00:34:28,760 –> 00:34:32,679
decades long journey of God
invites us and to be patient and

584
00:34:33,360 –> 00:34:36,679
embrace when long-suffering is a
piece of the story.

585
00:34:36,920 –> 00:34:40,280
But you noted that passage that
says, don’t worry about

586
00:34:40,280 –> 00:34:42,040
tomorrow.
Tomorrow has enough worries

587
00:34:42,040 –> 00:34:43,560
about itself.
And so we’re invited to

588
00:34:43,560 –> 00:34:48,280
simultaneously embrace the long
journey, but also live in today,

589
00:34:48,280 –> 00:34:52,520
live in the moment, live in such
a way that we release everything

590
00:34:52,520 –> 00:34:56,000
that is to come.
How does God meet us in that

591
00:34:56,040 –> 00:35:00,880
space, in the moment?
I think God will give you peace

592
00:35:00,880 –> 00:35:04,440
if you ask for it.
When you have troubles, pray

593
00:35:04,440 –> 00:35:06,880
about them.
People have very difficult

594
00:35:06,880 –> 00:35:09,360
troubles from time to time,
that’s for darn sure.

595
00:35:09,800 –> 00:35:13,960
But God is there.
We can’t understand why we

596
00:35:13,960 –> 00:35:16,480
suffer.
I think suffering is a barrier

597
00:35:16,760 –> 00:35:20,440
between people and God.
You know this mistaken idea that

598
00:35:20,440 –> 00:35:22,600
if God is real, the universe
should be perfect.

599
00:35:23,960 –> 00:35:28,600
I think suffering is kind of
above our ability to understand

600
00:35:28,600 –> 00:35:31,000
in a way.
It has a lot to do with free

601
00:35:31,000 –> 00:35:33,760
will and God being the ultimate
gentleman.

602
00:35:33,760 –> 00:35:38,720
But God solves the problem in
his own way by sending Jesus to

603
00:35:38,720 –> 00:35:41,720
us, who suffered enormously for
us.

604
00:35:42,520 –> 00:35:47,600
And he also promises us that if
we want, if we accept it,

605
00:35:48,680 –> 00:35:50,440
there’s eternal life on the
other side.

606
00:35:50,440 –> 00:35:55,200
Now I know that sounds to some
impossible, but Jesus did rise

607
00:35:55,200 –> 00:35:57,360
from the dead.
I think that’s pretty basically

608
00:35:57,360 –> 00:36:00,760
historical fact if you actually
look at the science of it, the

609
00:36:00,760 –> 00:36:03,680
history, what’s in the Roman
records, and there’s no other

610
00:36:03,680 –> 00:36:06,880
explanation for the birth of
Christianity.

611
00:36:07,480 –> 00:36:09,280
I don’t think God sends people
to hell.

612
00:36:09,280 –> 00:36:11,800
I think people choose hell.
They choose to distance

613
00:36:11,800 –> 00:36:14,640
themselves from God.
You people have always been

614
00:36:14,640 –> 00:36:18,800
comforted long term by the
promise, through the Old

615
00:36:18,800 –> 00:36:22,400
Testament and through Jesus, of
a better life to come.

616
00:36:23,040 –> 00:36:24,880
Yeah, as you’re talking about
suffering, it reminded me of

617
00:36:24,880 –> 00:36:30,800
Job, and it ties very well to
this whole conversation because

618
00:36:30,800 –> 00:36:34,080
what Job wanted was for God to
explain his suffering.

619
00:36:34,880 –> 00:36:39,120
And then what we get from God is
he uses science to explain

620
00:36:39,120 –> 00:36:40,400
himself.
Right.

621
00:36:40,960 –> 00:36:45,000
And in seeing that, Job suddenly
realizes it was more important

622
00:36:45,000 –> 00:36:48,960
for him to know who God was than
to know why God was allowing

623
00:36:48,960 –> 00:36:51,160
what he was allowing.
And it’s through this

624
00:36:51,160 –> 00:36:53,720
interaction that he finds a
piece in a situation, even

625
00:36:53,720 –> 00:36:57,280
though none of his core
questions end up being answered.

626
00:36:57,800 –> 00:37:01,800
And to see God using science,
talking about the creation of

627
00:37:02,080 –> 00:37:07,520
the universe and the creation of
certain animals, and I feel like

628
00:37:07,520 –> 00:37:09,880
ties very well into so much of
what you’re saying.

629
00:37:09,880 –> 00:37:14,720
God wants to make himself known.
He’s revealing himself.

630
00:37:15,360 –> 00:37:17,160
He’s not even trying to hide
from us.

631
00:37:17,200 –> 00:37:19,920
He also knows there’s a lot
about himself that we won’t

632
00:37:19,920 –> 00:37:23,080
comprehend, and yet he is very
patient with us.

633
00:37:23,560 –> 00:37:27,600
And so the good news for those
listening is you have spent a

634
00:37:27,600 –> 00:37:30,400
lot of time thinking about these
things, and you’ve put a lot of

635
00:37:30,400 –> 00:37:32,440
work into capturing these
things.

636
00:37:32,440 –> 00:37:36,120
And so somebody wanted to go
deeper into this idea of God and

637
00:37:36,120 –> 00:37:38,040
science.
You’ve written many books and

638
00:37:38,040 –> 00:37:40,840
you’ve created spaces.
How could people go deeper?

639
00:37:41,320 –> 00:37:44,720
Well, first place I I would say
Paul, they might go is to my

640
00:37:44,720 –> 00:37:47,160
website.
My first book was Counting to

641
00:37:47,160 –> 00:37:51,400
God got the number analogy and
they’re being a nerd.

642
00:37:51,400 –> 00:37:54,720
But you know, like the book
counts through 7 areas of modern

643
00:37:54,720 –> 00:37:59,920
science that point to God.
So counting to god.com is my

644
00:37:59,920 –> 00:38:03,120
website.
I do a blog every week or every

645
00:38:03,120 –> 00:38:08,040
other week on recent scientific
discoveries that point to God.

646
00:38:08,280 –> 00:38:12,160
All my books are there.
I particularly proud of my

647
00:38:12,160 –> 00:38:14,320
newest book, if I could just
describe it.

648
00:38:14,320 –> 00:38:16,640
It’s published again by the
Discovery Institute.

649
00:38:16,640 –> 00:38:19,800
I’ve assigned all the rights to
them, but I I’m really proud of

650
00:38:19,800 –> 00:38:22,160
it because it is a graphic
novel.

651
00:38:23,160 –> 00:38:25,440
My first book, Counting to God
is pretty technical.

652
00:38:25,440 –> 00:38:28,440
I had a dozens of top scientists
review different sections to

653
00:38:28,440 –> 00:38:29,640
make sure I got everything
right.

654
00:38:30,000 –> 00:38:32,960
But my, my minister said make it
simpler, put in pictures.

655
00:38:33,240 –> 00:38:37,920
So I wrote a graphic novel,
which is, as you know, a big

656
00:38:37,920 –> 00:38:41,680
version of a cartoon book
basically aimed at younger

657
00:38:41,680 –> 00:38:44,920
readers.
And it’s called the God Proofs.

658
00:38:45,640 –> 00:38:48,880
And I have another website
calledthegodproofs.com where you

659
00:38:48,880 –> 00:38:52,440
can watch animated videos of
parts of the book.

660
00:38:53,040 –> 00:38:56,640
It’s aimed at kids 10 and below.
There’s a lot out there so that

661
00:38:56,640 –> 00:39:00,200
I would recommend that counting
to god.com and the God

662
00:39:00,200 –> 00:39:03,520
proofs.com.
But if you look, there’s so many

663
00:39:03,520 –> 00:39:06,520
wonderful organizations out
there that have a lot of good

664
00:39:06,520 –> 00:39:08,800
books.
If you want to know more about

665
00:39:09,080 –> 00:39:14,200
science and God, then Institute
for Creation Research, Creation

666
00:39:14,200 –> 00:39:18,040
Ministries, International
Answers in Genesis are all

667
00:39:18,040 –> 00:39:21,240
fantastic resources.
And you could go on.

668
00:39:21,240 –> 00:39:26,120
I mean, there is just a wondrous
array of information out there

669
00:39:26,600 –> 00:39:30,840
by truly hundreds of scientists
and some very good writers.

670
00:39:30,840 –> 00:39:34,080
That’s great.
And as we close out, is there

671
00:39:34,080 –> 00:39:36,880
anything else that you feel like
God is leading you to share?

672
00:39:37,920 –> 00:39:43,880
I just would encourage people to
check out the evidence for God

673
00:39:44,880 –> 00:39:47,720
to really take a look at it.
I think it’s worth a few moments

674
00:39:47,720 –> 00:39:51,720
of your time, maybe even a few
hours, because it can change

675
00:39:51,720 –> 00:40:14,960
your life.
In the 1st 6 verses of Psalm 19,

676
00:40:15,440 –> 00:40:21,000
David says this The heavens
declare the glory of God.

677
00:40:21,640 –> 00:40:25,400
The skies proclaim the.
Work of his hands.

678
00:40:26,320 –> 00:40:30,440
Day after day they pour forth
speech.

679
00:40:31,440 –> 00:40:35,360
Night after night they reveal
knowledge.

680
00:40:36,480 –> 00:40:38,920
They have no speech.
They use no words.

681
00:40:39,080 –> 00:40:43,840
No sound is heard from them.
Yet their voice goes out into

682
00:40:43,880 –> 00:40:48,960
all the earth, their words to
the ends of the world.

683
00:40:50,120 –> 00:40:52,760
In the heavens, God has pitched
a tent for the sun.

684
00:40:53,280 –> 00:40:55,760
It is like a bridegroom.
Coming out of his chamber.

685
00:40:56,040 –> 00:40:58,360
Like a.
Champion rejoicing to run his

686
00:40:58,360 –> 00:41:01,120
course.
It rises at one end of the

687
00:41:01,120 –> 00:41:03,760
heavens and makes its circuit to
the other.

688
00:41:04,560 –> 00:41:06,800
Nothing is deprived of its
warmth.

689
00:41:08,560 –> 00:41:14,080
I can imagine David looking up
to the sky, closing his eyes

690
00:41:14,080 –> 00:41:20,640
amidst the brightness of the sun
and feeling the warmth, knowing

691
00:41:20,880 –> 00:41:24,200
that something beyond his
understanding was happening.

692
00:41:25,200 –> 00:41:30,200
David knew God through the
stories and scrolls of the past,

693
00:41:31,040 –> 00:41:35,560
yet he was experiencing God
anew, learning new realities

694
00:41:35,920 –> 00:41:40,440
through the creation around him.
So much of the field of science

695
00:41:40,440 –> 00:41:45,000
was centuries away from David in
that moment, and yet the science

696
00:41:45,000 –> 00:41:49,680
around him declared the glory of
God, proclaimed the work of his

697
00:41:49,680 –> 00:41:52,120
hands.
Poured forth.

698
00:41:52,120 –> 00:41:55,840
Speech and revealed knowledge,
even though it had no speech,

699
00:41:56,080 –> 00:42:00,680
had no words, no sound.
Yet the voice of the science

700
00:42:00,680 –> 00:42:05,480
around him went out into all the
earth, and the words were heard

701
00:42:05,800 –> 00:42:09,560
to the ends of the world.
As David marvelled at the

702
00:42:09,560 –> 00:42:15,040
creation around him, he saw God
in the midst the natural things

703
00:42:15,040 –> 00:42:16,880
happening.
Did not lead him to.

704
00:42:16,880 –> 00:42:20,560
Question God, but rather drew
him closer.

705
00:42:21,800 –> 00:42:24,720
What if God’s inviting us to
engage with his creation in the

706
00:42:24,720 –> 00:42:29,200
same way our intellect leads us
to struggle with verse three.

707
00:42:29,320 –> 00:42:31,440
They have no speech.
They use no words, no.

708
00:42:31,440 –> 00:42:37,000
Sound is heard from them.
We want clear explanations and

709
00:42:37,000 –> 00:42:38,320
yet.
Verse 4 tells us.

710
00:42:38,920 –> 00:42:40,880
That their voice goes out into.
All the earth.

711
00:42:41,240 –> 00:42:43,120
Their words to the ends of the
world.

712
00:42:43,760 –> 00:42:48,200
Scripture frequently reiterates
this sentiment that the heavens

713
00:42:48,200 –> 00:42:50,880
declared the glory of God and
the skies proclaimed the work of

714
00:42:50,880 –> 00:42:53,280
His hands.
Perhaps our invitation?

715
00:42:53,280 –> 00:42:57,000
Today is to be like David,
stepping out and looking up at

716
00:42:57,000 –> 00:43:01,160
the sky, marveling at the
expanse of the stars or basking

717
00:43:01,160 –> 00:43:05,800
in the warmth of the sun and
listening, listening carefully

718
00:43:06,520 –> 00:43:08,880
to what they might be saying
about their creator.

719
00:43:09,840 –> 00:43:14,360
Go into the world today with
that type of curiosity and ask

720
00:43:14,360 –> 00:43:16,840
yourself, where did you see God?