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Trust is a risky thing, and the
more hardships you navigate in

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life, the harder it is to trust
not just people, but the God who

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seems to allow those hardships
to happen.

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This is something that today’s
guest, Noel Kablay had to

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navigate Throughout her
childhood, she experienced

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incredibly difficult things.
It’s somehow she came to know

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God in a beautiful way, and
learning to trust Him became a

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marker of her life.
Then, just as she felt like she

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could settle into the last
quarter of her life, a

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disastrous hardship struck her
and left her asking the

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question, What does it mean to
trust God?

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Scripture is clear about the
importance of trusting God.

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Proverbs 35 says Trust in the
Lord with all your heart.

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Yet when God seems to allow
hardship, when He seems to not

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answer prayer, knowing what
trust looks like can be

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confusing at best, frustrating
at worst.

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Yet what Noel has found is not
only is God worthy of trust, he

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is faithful to show up in ways
that are immeasurably more than

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we ask for or imagine.
If you are finding it hard to

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trust God, I truly believe you
will be encouraged by Noel’s

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story.
You’re listening to episode 240.

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Two of the Where Did You See God
podcast.

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Father God, I just want to thank
you that you are God and you are

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good and for your wisdom and
bringing about connections like

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these conversations that never
could have existed without you.

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And so right now, I thank you
for this opportunity for Newell

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and I to explore who you are,
explore this reality you’ve

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invited us into.
And we could have all kinds of

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thoughts of where we think it
could go.

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But we want to say here we are
and offer this space to you.

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So Holy Spirit, move.
Guide our words, guide our

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questions, guide this
conversation in a way that

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brings not honor and glory to
us, but to you, God.

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We thank you in advance for how
you will do a measurably more

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through this, even if we never
know exactly what you do, and we

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just look forward to
experiencing you in this space.

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All this we praying to His holy
and precious name.

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Amen.
Amen.

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Well now I’m excited to talk
some more.

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We we’ve had a little pre
conversation and there is

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already so much goodness in in
that.

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So now that the mics are going,
who knows what’s going to

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happen?
But before we get going, what

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would you want people to know
about who you are?

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That appearances are deceiving
when it comes to me.

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People see me and they have no
idea what I’ve really lived

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through, what I’ve really had to
go through to get to this space

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that God has brought me where
I’m I’m living a normalized

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life, that I’ve got a loving
family.

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People kind of make assumptions
about you and then they hear the

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truth and it kind of blows their
mind.

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And that’s not something I asked
for.

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It’s just something that
happened.

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I always get a kick out of it
when God uses it.

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Yeah, yeah.
Well, let’s get right into that.

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You know, people look at you and
they make these assumptions and

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there is this huge element of
your reality, of your life

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experience that they just have
no idea.

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They can never could have a
guessed existed.

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Tell us about that story.
Oh my goodness, that goes back a

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ways.
I was raised in a extremely

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abusive, dysfunctional home.
I tried to tell people that I

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don’t stand on the corner of
abuse.

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I don’t own it.
There’s a lot of people parked

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next to me on this corner, but I
do have some quantitative

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evidence that, you know, over
the years of working through

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stuff, I ended up discovering a
Ted talk done by a beautiful

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pediatrician working in
conjunction with the National

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Institutes of Health in
Coronado, San Diego.

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And she basically created a
longitudinal study with her

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patients in the area of
Coronado, and she was able to

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kind of have them come at five
years old and then see where

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they were at at 15.
And her dream as a pediatrician

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was they would all be healthy
and they’d be happy and they’d

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be functional.
But she was starting to see that

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she’s working with kids at 10.
Years later, we’re showing early

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diabetes and early coronary
artery disease.

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And why is that?
So they did a long study and it

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led to a survey called the ACE
survey.

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Have you heard of it before the
Adverse childhood Experiences

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survey?
Most people score, I would say

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one or two.
And then you get to 3 and it’s,

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it’s a little trouble in the
water.

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And then 4 is like, you got a
lot of drowning victims.

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And how do we teach them to
swim?

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I scored a nine.
So statistically, I’m in the

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94th percentile, which means
that if we have 100 people in

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this room, Paul, 93 of them will
have had a better life as a

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child than I did, and six of
them will have had it worse.

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But the reality of that metric
is that anybody who scores above

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70 is in a bad zone.
The reason I said I don’t own

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the corner on it is, is because
unfortunately, we live in a very

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broken world.
There’s a lot of sin that’s

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committed against people.
And so I don’t want to pretend

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that, you know, I, I’m special
because of it.

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The only thing that’s special
about it is the way that I was

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able to find my faith early and
how it restructured or

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reorganized the early
imprinting.

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And up to this day, I’m 64 now,
just had a birthday.

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Happy birthday.
Thanks.

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And I look at that process as
God’s own longitudinal study.

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I I shouldn’t be here.
I certainly shouldn’t be a

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professor at the university
working with amazing kids.

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I shouldn’t have raised three
amazing men.

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I, I know who I am and I know
what I could have been and I’m

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very aware of what my God has
done and.

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What’s so hard about childhood
trauma in particular is it could

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be easy for people to do what
you’ve described to kind of

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write it off in their mind as
anybody who’s experienced

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certain things, there’s not much
hope to come out of it unless

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there is substantial work.
But even with substantial work,

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you’re always going to be
limited.

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And so I could definitely
understand what you’re sharing

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about how where you are now,
people are going to make

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assumptions that that must have
meant that you were in the below

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20% on the A score.
But I also know that wasn’t the

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only challenge that you’ve had
to navigate in your life, right?

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It wasn’t just in childhood that
there were hard things and then

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everything got better.
So how did God continue to work

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through your journey as
hardships still hit?

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That’s a really great thing to
say.

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I’ll start here.
One of the things about people

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who’ve had a history like I
have, and it’s clinically

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consistent is we have trouble
trusting.

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And so one of the tenants of
Christianity, you know, you’re

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supposed to have your have faith
in God, You’re supposed to trust

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in God.
And I think for people who’ve

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never known, it’s like not to
trust anyone.

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They don’t understand how heavy
that is.

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The idea of trusting, trusting
God, trusting situations to turn

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out OK, trusting that even in
the bad things, God is here and

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God is guiding.
It’s almost impossible.

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And quite honestly, people
who’ve suffered like I have,

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they suffer through that.
Even at 64, I’ll just even go

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here like 3 years ago when my
cancer was diagnosed.

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That was such a challenge for me
because here I am and I work

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with students and I, I’ve
already written a book that had

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told the sad story of what
happened to me and how I was led

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to more wholeness.
And years past, I noticed that

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God is still leading me to
wholeness.

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And I think, you know, I’m in a
good place now.

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I’m cool.
God, we’re going to go live this

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1/4 of my life that’s left and
I’m just going to own it and do

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my thing.
And then I, I show up with

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cancer and it’s bad.
It’s a rare cancer.

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It hits two to four women out of
every 100,000 worldwide and it’s

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a killer.
It kills 70% of the women who

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get it, including those in stage
1.

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So I live in uncertainty now,
even though I know evidence of

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disease at this point 2 1/2
years later.

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And that uncertainty puts me
right back to that same space.

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Paul, when you talk about trust,
it’s like, OK, you know, I got

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through all the childhood stuff.
God, I’m trusting you to help me

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work through all of this.
And then you get married and you

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raise kids and I’m trusting you
to help me work with wisdom

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towards my children that I’m not
a repeat offender of what

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happened to me.
It’s so easy.

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I’m already pre wired to do
terrible things and yell and

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scream.
And you know, and and that’s

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just not what I’m going to do.
I’m going to I’m going to try to

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trust you, you know, and that
trust were just goes up again

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and again and again.
And so one of the hardest things

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that I’ve found as a person
who’s had so much happen is this

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idea that trust keeps coming up
again and again and again.

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I don’t think that I’m alone in
that.

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I talk to a lot of students, you
know, I don’t know if I’m can

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pay my tuition.
You know, I need to trust God.

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I mean, those are functional
trusts for me.

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It’s a lot deeper.
I understand what they’re going

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through, but that functional
trust touches that kind of

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attachment disorder thing that
I, I struggle with.

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And so I, I would say that the
arc of my life is kind of

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leading me to, what is the
meaning of trust in someone who

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had constantly been imprinted as
a child before they had words

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that I might not have anybody I
can trust.

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And then you’re introduced to
this idea of faith in Jesus, and

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you can’t really have a
relationship with him if you

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don’t trust him.
So I struggle with that, but I

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work hard at it at the same
time.

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Yeah.
Did that help?

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Did that answer.
I mean, in my head I’m laughing

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because I want to say no, it
didn’t answer because there’s so

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much more to dig into in this,
right?

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Because what you just tapped
into, I mean, it was a good

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answer.
And this is the thing.

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It’s like, it’s actually I, I’m
sitting here thinking, man, oh

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man, we’ve just stumbled into
something that it is so

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important to navigate and so
hard to navigate this idea of

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trusting God.
And I love that we’re attaching

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it to how we navigate human
trust.

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And like you were noting
attachments and you know, if you

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had a parent that proved they
weren’t trustworthy, if you

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experienced hardship, it impacts
your ability to trust others.

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You put the work in and you put
the faith in to seek God, to

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love God, to love others with
your life.

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And as a human, what that tells
us is that then life should be

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good after.
And in a lot of ways it might

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have seemed like, you know,
there’s little hardships, but

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you know, you’re getting along.
And then suddenly you get to

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2023 and this God whom you’ve
been trying to trust suddenly

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allows this horrific thing to
happen.

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Man, this, this idea of trust on
a spiritual level, an eternal

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level, it’s such a hard one for
humanity.

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I think of David as you were
talking, who so many of his

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psalms were, ones that are
echoing the sentiment like God,

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where are you?
How long, O Lord, will you

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forget me forever?
How long will you hide your face

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from me?
David was, as God put it, a man

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after.
God’s own heart.

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A man who took huge steps of
faith, who trusted God in ways

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that the entire Israelite army
refused to, and then he gets hit

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with hardship after hardship
after hardship, when it should

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have been the time for rest, the
time for victory.

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And so.
So you answered the question,

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but I feel like we got to dig in
deeper.

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Let’s go.
I guess first I want to hear

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about those moments where I
imagine you must have felt this

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00:12:40,840 –> 00:12:43,560
betrayal may be too strong of a
word, but God, I have spent

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00:12:43,560 –> 00:12:47,800
decades trusting you and you
have allowed this to happen.

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And I I’m struggling to know
what trust looks like.

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Did you have moments like that?
How transparent do you want me

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to be, Paul?
This is your time.

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00:12:59,560 –> 00:13:02,760
There’s no way to talk about
this easily, but we’re grown-ups

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00:13:02,760 –> 00:13:04,680
here so I’ll just tell the
truth.

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00:13:06,160 –> 00:13:10,160
I woke up covered in blood.
I had a massive hemorrhage.

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And I saw that in about 3:00 in
the morning.

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00:13:13,960 –> 00:13:20,240
And I sat on a floor and I said,
you got to be kidding.

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00:13:21,800 –> 00:13:26,240
You’ve got to be kidding me.
I just danced with my son at his

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00:13:26,240 –> 00:13:29,720
wedding.
I have cancer.

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00:13:31,040 –> 00:13:34,480
I know this is cancer.
People are going to tell me not

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00:13:34,480 –> 00:13:36,400
to panic and they’re going to
tell me to buck up.

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And I know what I know.
I’m not stupid.

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Anyone who’s menopausal, who has
bleeding after is in trouble.

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00:13:45,480 –> 00:13:47,440
And it’s not something people
like to talk about in the

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00:13:47,440 –> 00:13:49,080
church.
It’s not comfortable.

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00:13:49,480 –> 00:13:52,040
You notice it makes company.
You’re handling it very well.

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00:13:52,040 –> 00:13:55,040
I would give you an A right now,
Paul, if you’re in my class.

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00:13:55,920 –> 00:13:59,560
But the the bottom line really
is, is that there’s an

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00:13:59,560 –> 00:14:03,920
indelicacy to the process that I
knew I had stepped into, one

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00:14:03,920 –> 00:14:06,240
that I was terrified of, to be
honest with you.

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00:14:06,680 –> 00:14:10,040
The medical vulnerability that
would be required for me to beat

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00:14:10,040 –> 00:14:13,040
a disease like the one that I
found that I had.

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00:14:13,960 –> 00:14:16,440
And I state this in my book, and
I mean it.

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00:14:17,640 –> 00:14:21,000
The idea of the medical
vulnerability I found was

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00:14:21,000 –> 00:14:26,760
emotionally scalding to me of
anything I said in that moment

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00:14:26,760 –> 00:14:29,080
to God.
It’s like, why this?

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00:14:30,080 –> 00:14:34,640
You know how I’m wired.
You know what happened to me all

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00:14:34,640 –> 00:14:38,840
those years ago.
You know how private I am, and

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00:14:38,840 –> 00:14:42,800
now I have to go and face a
disease that I’m going to have

250
00:14:42,800 –> 00:14:46,960
to talk about without feeling
some sense of shame in public.

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00:14:47,200 –> 00:14:50,080
It’s impossible.
You are asking something

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00:14:50,080 –> 00:14:54,160
impossible of me, but I didn’t
really have a choice other than

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00:14:54,160 –> 00:14:57,160
to walk through it.
Sometimes God just throws us

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00:14:57,160 –> 00:15:00,640
down that road of the valley and
you just got to go and there

255
00:15:00,680 –> 00:15:02,480
there really are no lights on
that one.

256
00:15:02,960 –> 00:15:07,200
You just walk in the dark until
you see the horizon start to

257
00:15:07,200 –> 00:15:09,560
change.
It isn’t easy.

258
00:15:10,240 –> 00:15:13,000
It isn’t easy.
And so I remember when that

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00:15:13,000 –> 00:15:20,160
happened, I went to the hospital
and very quickly it was known

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00:15:20,160 –> 00:15:22,280
that’s like this is this is not
good.

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00:15:22,760 –> 00:15:28,440
But in that first few minutes,
and I don’t say this lightly, I

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00:15:28,440 –> 00:15:31,040
don’t lie.
And I, you know, I can, anybody

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00:15:31,040 –> 00:15:34,720
can like engage in a story and
like give it color.

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00:15:34,720 –> 00:15:37,360
You know, if I have a
personality, I’m not doing that

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00:15:37,360 –> 00:15:39,680
here.
I’m telling you exactly what I

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00:15:39,680 –> 00:15:44,240
felt from the get go.
I walk out of the car, it’s 4:00

267
00:15:44,240 –> 00:15:46,720
in the morning, and I know I’m
going to have to face a

268
00:15:46,720 –> 00:15:52,480
crucifixion of a sort that I
have dreaded at my core that

269
00:15:52,480 –> 00:15:53,960
anything like this would happen
to me.

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00:15:54,400 –> 00:15:58,200
But in the first moments, as I
realized that you were going to

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00:15:58,200 –> 00:16:02,440
go down in process, I could
sense that God was leading it.

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00:16:02,440 –> 00:16:05,360
And it wasn’t easy, Paul.
None of it was easy.

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00:16:05,800 –> 00:16:09,400
But what happened afterwards is
something that changed my life.

274
00:16:10,480 –> 00:16:13,280
And it’s this.
I don’t get up in the morning

275
00:16:13,280 –> 00:16:16,280
and think I’m special, and I
don’t get up in the morning and

276
00:16:16,280 –> 00:16:21,320
say, you’re greatly unique.
I’m just one of God’s kids who

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00:16:21,440 –> 00:16:25,280
has a hard story, and I’m just
trying to live my life and do

278
00:16:25,280 –> 00:16:32,800
what he’s put in front of me.
I didn’t know that we were loved

279
00:16:33,160 –> 00:16:37,760
in the way I found out.
I didn’t know that my family was

280
00:16:37,760 –> 00:16:40,920
adored.
I’d never had a community

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00:16:40,920 –> 00:16:43,600
before.
When I was a child, we were

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00:16:43,600 –> 00:16:49,320
evicted every six to 12 months.
I went to 11 schools in 12 years

283
00:16:50,000 –> 00:16:52,360
and didn’t have a community.
We didn’t have a baseball team

284
00:16:52,360 –> 00:16:54,280
we were a part of or a
basketball team.

285
00:16:54,840 –> 00:16:57,520
And by the time we started
something, we had to pick up and

286
00:16:57,520 –> 00:17:00,240
move.
And that was because my mom was

287
00:17:00,240 –> 00:17:02,720
nuts.
She wasn’t a good person.

288
00:17:03,560 –> 00:17:08,280
So I didn’t know what it would
be like to have a Bible study of

289
00:17:08,280 –> 00:17:14,119
women that when the word cancer
came up, that they got busy.

290
00:17:15,400 –> 00:17:19,119
I didn’t know that I lived in a
community where you know, it’s,

291
00:17:19,119 –> 00:17:21,720
it’s a nice community.
There’s there’s a lot of wealth

292
00:17:21,720 –> 00:17:24,440
in this community.
I don’t pretend to have that.

293
00:17:24,520 –> 00:17:27,200
I live a nice life and I’m
grateful for it.

294
00:17:27,680 –> 00:17:31,960
I didn’t know that people would
start to say, what do we have to

295
00:17:31,960 –> 00:17:34,360
do?
We need to get her across the

296
00:17:34,360 –> 00:17:36,600
finish line that nobody ever saw
coming.

297
00:17:37,640 –> 00:17:42,120
That has changed my life.
Because you see, my job from the

298
00:17:42,120 –> 00:17:46,040
time I became a Christian has
been, what is the meaning of

299
00:17:46,040 –> 00:17:49,600
trust?
How do I trust God through these

300
00:17:50,120 –> 00:17:52,520
crazy things that most people
don’t have to deal with?

301
00:17:53,120 –> 00:17:56,280
And I thought it was past it.
And I’m facing it again.

302
00:17:56,960 –> 00:18:01,200
And what happens is the minute
that hospital visit was

303
00:18:01,400 –> 00:18:05,120
something that I told people
about, they got busy.

304
00:18:05,920 –> 00:18:09,720
They cried with me, they prayed
for me, but they did more than

305
00:18:09,720 –> 00:18:12,840
that.
They got busy any time of the

306
00:18:12,920 –> 00:18:17,640
whole process, make dinner.
Flowers showed up all the time.

307
00:18:18,160 –> 00:18:20,480
One time.
This is a funny story.

308
00:18:21,760 –> 00:18:24,760
My husband comes and I’m sick.
OK, I’ve had chemo.

309
00:18:25,000 –> 00:18:27,440
I’m in bed and I’m sick.
He comes in, he goes.

310
00:18:27,480 –> 00:18:28,880
Well, no, I don’t.
I don’t want to do that.

311
00:18:28,880 –> 00:18:32,840
There’s a there’s a Maserati
outside and it doesn’t have any

312
00:18:32,840 –> 00:18:36,240
license plates on it.
So it’s a new car and there’s a

313
00:18:36,240 –> 00:18:40,360
person coming out and there’s a
giant box of Donuts 4 feet long.

314
00:18:40,360 –> 00:18:41,880
And it was, it was, it was this
long.

315
00:18:41,880 –> 00:18:45,960
It’s just a huge box of Donuts
and I’m thinking, God bless

316
00:18:45,960 –> 00:18:47,640
them.
I’m I’m too sick to eat Donuts,

317
00:18:47,640 –> 00:18:50,760
so I’m not going to do that.
But people did all kinds of

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00:18:50,760 –> 00:18:55,400
crazy things because they loved
my family and they love me.

319
00:18:56,560 –> 00:18:59,160
The impact of that has been
profound.

320
00:19:00,160 –> 00:19:04,120
I don’t wake up the same.
I’ve never known this before.

321
00:19:05,000 –> 00:19:08,000
And if you were to ask me, was
it worth it to go through cancer

322
00:19:08,000 –> 00:19:11,120
to get this?
It’s tough because it was a

323
00:19:11,120 –> 00:19:14,320
difficult journey, but I’ll tell
you what, I’ve learned a great

324
00:19:14,320 –> 00:19:22,160
thing.
I think that as Christians, it’s

325
00:19:22,160 –> 00:19:24,360
good to do the works that God
puts before us.

326
00:19:25,080 –> 00:19:29,000
It’s good to say I know right
from wrong and I’m and I’m going

327
00:19:29,000 –> 00:19:32,400
to care for people.
But love is a little bit

328
00:19:32,400 –> 00:19:35,360
different than just caring.
That’s an aspect of it.

329
00:19:36,360 –> 00:19:40,480
It’s sacrifice when you’re
sacrificing for someone else.

330
00:19:40,480 –> 00:19:44,080
And that’s what happened to me
in this place, in this

331
00:19:44,080 –> 00:19:47,080
community.
And I did not see it coming and

332
00:19:47,080 –> 00:19:50,680
it laid me out.
I would lay there in bed and

333
00:19:50,680 –> 00:19:54,280
start to cry, not because I
didn’t know if I was going to

334
00:19:54,280 –> 00:19:57,160
live this next year.
I knew the stats.

335
00:19:57,600 –> 00:20:02,520
I was well versed in all of it.
I studied my cancer so much so

336
00:20:02,520 –> 00:20:05,080
that I tried to learn
microbiology in order to

337
00:20:05,200 –> 00:20:08,520
understand.
The pathology reports, my doctor

338
00:20:08,520 –> 00:20:11,320
goes, excuse me, or you want me
to answer questions on

339
00:20:11,320 –> 00:20:14,800
microbiology, I go, yes, I don’t
understand this particular and

340
00:20:14,800 –> 00:20:17,640
he laughed because that’s just
that’s just who I am.

341
00:20:19,160 –> 00:20:30,400
But the idea that God’s Love Is
All around us and we don’t see

342
00:20:30,400 –> 00:20:35,240
it, we don’t even know it’s
there until the need comes.

343
00:20:36,320 –> 00:20:42,280
And it was not a little tiny
shower, it was a torrent that

344
00:20:42,280 –> 00:20:44,360
happened to me.
So was it worth it?

345
00:20:45,000 –> 00:20:48,600
I think the better question is,
am I changed?

346
00:20:49,040 –> 00:20:54,160
And I am, and I can’t do enough
for others now because I know

347
00:20:54,160 –> 00:20:57,640
what that feels like to know
that you’re actually loved.

348
00:20:57,640 –> 00:21:02,760
And it motivates me.
You know what’s wild about

349
00:21:02,760 –> 00:21:07,360
humanity is at every stage of
life, until we start to realize

350
00:21:07,960 –> 00:21:12,200
how off we are on this, we
assume we understand things.

351
00:21:12,200 –> 00:21:15,560
So when we’re kids, we assume we
understand reality.

352
00:21:15,920 –> 00:21:18,960
We understand how things work.
Of course, I’m supposed to have

353
00:21:18,960 –> 00:21:21,480
dessert after every meal, and it
should be a big dessert because

354
00:21:21,760 –> 00:21:23,560
dessert makes me happy and
right?

355
00:21:23,560 –> 00:21:28,040
And the older we get, we look
back and realize our limited

356
00:21:28,040 –> 00:21:29,960
understanding.
And the more understanding we

357
00:21:29,960 –> 00:21:33,520
get, the more we feel like we
understand things until we get a

358
00:21:33,520 –> 00:21:35,960
little older and realize we
still didn’t understand.

359
00:21:35,960 –> 00:21:39,680
And when you add into that, not
just limited understanding, but

360
00:21:40,520 –> 00:21:42,720
external impact.
So you talked about the ACE

361
00:21:42,720 –> 00:21:47,680
score and how traumatic things
in childhood can significantly

362
00:21:47,680 –> 00:21:51,640
impact how one perceives
reality, one understands

363
00:21:51,640 –> 00:21:54,320
situations.
And so we could keep adding on

364
00:21:54,320 –> 00:21:58,120
to these things and yet we keep
feeling like we get certain

365
00:21:58,120 –> 00:22:01,520
things.
And so as you were talking, you

366
00:22:01,520 –> 00:22:05,800
shared about trust being this
thread throughout your life.

367
00:22:05,840 –> 00:22:10,280
And as you grew in relationship
with God, you wanted to

368
00:22:10,280 –> 00:22:13,960
understand more and more what it
meant to trust him and likely

369
00:22:13,960 –> 00:22:17,480
had many wonderful moments where
you’re like, I get what it means

370
00:22:17,480 –> 00:22:19,880
to trust God now.
Like I’m, I’m trusting God in

371
00:22:19,880 –> 00:22:24,160
these big ways.
And then this curveball comes

372
00:22:26,120 –> 00:22:30,600
and it made me think of the
story of Peter, who says to

373
00:22:30,600 –> 00:22:33,360
Jesus, I will absolutely go to
jail for you.

374
00:22:33,520 –> 00:22:37,560
I will absolutely die for you
until he gets to this moment

375
00:22:37,800 –> 00:22:40,960
where that act would have been
immensely humiliating.

376
00:22:40,960 –> 00:22:43,840
I thought about it When you
share like God, you know, you

377
00:22:43,840 –> 00:22:48,000
know what you’re asking me to do
is impossible to publicly convey

378
00:22:48,120 –> 00:22:52,200
something this humiliating and
debilitating like Peter is

379
00:22:52,200 –> 00:22:55,440
standing here feeling the same
thing and now wrestling with

380
00:22:55,440 –> 00:23:01,600
this tension of just a day ago,
I was 100% resolved to give my

381
00:23:01,600 –> 00:23:05,680
life for Jesus.
And right now I don’t know how

382
00:23:05,680 –> 00:23:09,680
and I don’t know that I want to
and now I feel such heartbreak

383
00:23:09,760 –> 00:23:13,640
because I love Jesus, but I
don’t know who he is right now.

384
00:23:13,640 –> 00:23:19,360
And and so I appreciate your
willingness to share that

385
00:23:19,360 –> 00:23:25,480
vulnerable piece of what a faith
walk is meant to be, because

386
00:23:25,480 –> 00:23:29,480
what’s happening throughout our
lifetime is we keep having to

387
00:23:29,480 –> 00:23:34,400
hit these moments where we come
face to face with our limited

388
00:23:34,400 –> 00:23:36,680
understanding, with our
misunderstandings, with our

389
00:23:36,680 –> 00:23:40,640
misconceptions, with our own
hopes and desires, with our

390
00:23:40,920 –> 00:23:44,640
ideas of who we want God to be.
And meanwhile, God wants us to

391
00:23:44,640 –> 00:23:49,640
know who he is.
And it’s these moments that we

392
00:23:49,640 –> 00:23:54,920
face that we come head to head
with what isn’t actually God and

393
00:23:54,920 –> 00:23:59,200
what isn’t actually eternity,
where we have the opportunity to

394
00:23:59,200 –> 00:24:02,880
stay in our misalignment or to
choose to trust a God who at

395
00:24:02,880 –> 00:24:05,160
that moment makes no sense to
us.

396
00:24:05,800 –> 00:24:10,120
And for you to convey to us this
part of the journey, the hard,

397
00:24:10,120 –> 00:24:14,760
hard moment where you’re like, I
don’t know what to do and yet

398
00:24:14,800 –> 00:24:18,040
God still was.
I think it’s, it’s so, so

399
00:24:18,040 –> 00:24:20,920
important because it’s trust
isn’t simply an intellectual

400
00:24:20,920 –> 00:24:23,560
thing.
You know, it says love the Lord

401
00:24:23,560 –> 00:24:25,720
your God with all your heart,
mind, soul and strength.

402
00:24:25,720 –> 00:24:29,480
I think that what we are working
towards, and we’ll spend

403
00:24:29,480 –> 00:24:34,800
eternity really coming to terms
with, is how our ability to

404
00:24:34,800 –> 00:24:38,000
understand God’s love is not
just intellectual, but it’s

405
00:24:38,000 –> 00:24:39,920
heart, mind, soul, and strength.
To understand what it means to

406
00:24:39,920 –> 00:24:42,280
trust God isn’t an intellectual
choice, but it’s heart, mind,

407
00:24:42,280 –> 00:24:46,440
soul, and strength.
And so here you are now, having

408
00:24:46,440 –> 00:24:50,280
discovered trust was more robust
than you realized.

409
00:24:51,920 –> 00:24:55,160
But even now you still haven’t
arrived, right?

410
00:24:55,160 –> 00:24:58,400
It’s not like the cancer journey
is done because you already

411
00:24:58,400 –> 00:25:01,240
noted right now you’re in
remission.

412
00:25:01,240 –> 00:25:04,760
Right now things are fine, but
you are living in the state of

413
00:25:04,760 –> 00:25:08,840
unknowns and so how do you
understand trust differently

414
00:25:08,840 –> 00:25:11,480
now?
Having gone through this hard,

415
00:25:11,880 –> 00:25:16,720
hard cancer journey and now
standing face to face with a lot

416
00:25:16,720 –> 00:25:19,720
of unanswered questions and
unknowns, what does trust look

417
00:25:19,720 –> 00:25:26,520
like in this season?
Trust is learning to embrace the

418
00:25:26,560 –> 00:25:30,880
ambiguity.
There’s a great ambiguity to my

419
00:25:30,880 –> 00:25:35,680
life and I cannot begin to say
that I know succinctly what

420
00:25:35,680 –> 00:25:41,880
that’s going to lead to.
I’m going to drop this when I

421
00:25:41,880 –> 00:25:45,880
had had my last chemotherapy.
What happens in chemotherapy is

422
00:25:45,880 –> 00:25:49,200
you get hit and then the week
after you’re really sick and

423
00:25:49,200 –> 00:25:52,560
then the second week you become
neutropenic, which means that

424
00:25:52,720 –> 00:25:55,960
basically your your cells are
blown to bits, including the

425
00:25:55,960 –> 00:25:59,080
cells that allow you to carry
oxygen throughout your body.

426
00:25:59,480 –> 00:26:02,440
And so it takes time for those
to regenerate without being

427
00:26:02,440 –> 00:26:05,760
under an assault.
And so you can’t breathe very

428
00:26:05,760 –> 00:26:08,240
well.
Walking from, you know, the

429
00:26:08,240 –> 00:26:12,680
bedroom to the kitchen is like
walking up Mount Everest.

430
00:26:13,560 –> 00:26:17,400
So I was about two weeks out,
right at that neutropenic place.

431
00:26:17,840 –> 00:26:22,560
I get a phone call and it’s my
son who’d been diagnosed at 15

432
00:26:22,960 –> 00:26:25,640
with a lesion in the center of
his brain called an arterial

433
00:26:25,640 –> 00:26:30,320
venous malformation.
And he was screaming and I’d

434
00:26:30,320 –> 00:26:33,360
been told and he was diagnosed
with it, it’s inoperable.

435
00:26:34,280 –> 00:26:37,720
I was told that if he ever calls
me screaming that it’s this is a

436
00:26:37,720 –> 00:26:41,880
four alarm fire.
So I got my phone and and it

437
00:26:41,880 –> 00:26:42,920
rings.
I go, hi, Kyle.

438
00:26:42,920 –> 00:26:47,640
And he’s screaming and I jump in
the car and I head over to where

439
00:26:47,640 –> 00:26:50,640
he is.
I call my husband and sure

440
00:26:50,640 –> 00:26:54,880
enough, he had an aneurysm in
that lesion in his brain.

441
00:26:56,480 –> 00:27:03,520
What does trust look like?
I didn’t even have time to think

442
00:27:03,520 –> 00:27:07,640
about that.
I just kept asking God if he

443
00:27:07,640 –> 00:27:10,080
could possibly not let this
happen.

444
00:27:10,080 –> 00:27:13,840
That would be great.
I’m having a hard time accepting

445
00:27:13,840 –> 00:27:17,400
your will in this matter, but if
you could work through this

446
00:27:17,400 –> 00:27:21,280
somehow that would be great.
And I don’t know how to say the

447
00:27:21,280 –> 00:27:23,720
rest.
My whole family came.

448
00:27:23,920 –> 00:27:26,760
We sat by his bedside.
We were told it was inoperable,

449
00:27:28,000 –> 00:27:33,680
but somehow the little hole in
the aneurysm packed itself with

450
00:27:33,680 –> 00:27:37,040
a blood clot and it started the
healing process.

451
00:27:37,080 –> 00:27:38,760
So there’s nothing the doctors
could do.

452
00:27:40,360 –> 00:27:46,400
We just had to wait.
And of course, it got out to my

453
00:27:46,400 –> 00:27:49,200
community that my son had an
aneurysm.

454
00:27:49,200 –> 00:27:51,320
I’m going to say this.
This is very interesting, I

455
00:27:51,320 –> 00:27:53,640
think on a kind of a
sociological level.

456
00:27:54,160 –> 00:27:56,480
You know, you get cancer and
there’s the big boom and, you

457
00:27:56,480 –> 00:27:58,640
know, everybody’s like, Oh my
goodness, this is terrible,

458
00:27:58,640 –> 00:28:01,400
blah, blah, blah.
And then you go through the

459
00:28:01,440 –> 00:28:04,200
whole treatment and you’re done
with chemo and it’s like

460
00:28:04,480 –> 00:28:07,160
recovery time.
And then your kid has an

461
00:28:07,160 –> 00:28:12,760
aneurysm and it gets out.
And the first time it was kind

462
00:28:12,760 –> 00:28:14,560
of this rah, rah, we’re going to
help you.

463
00:28:14,560 –> 00:28:16,760
We’re going to get around you.
You know, we’re going to pray,

464
00:28:16,760 –> 00:28:18,600
we’re going to do this and we’re
going to we’re going to take

465
00:28:18,600 –> 00:28:22,280
care of you.
This time it was silent.

466
00:28:24,880 –> 00:28:29,200
It was a gut punch, not just to
me, but to everyone.

467
00:28:29,280 –> 00:28:33,240
It’s like nobody knew what to
say because it’s one thing for

468
00:28:33,240 –> 00:28:35,360
it to happen to me.
It’s another thing for it to

469
00:28:35,360 –> 00:28:38,520
happen to my son.
And so the whole community was

470
00:28:38,520 –> 00:28:43,440
stunned for a minute, and then
that got busy.

471
00:28:44,200 –> 00:28:47,120
What does he need?
He needs an Apple Fall Watch.

472
00:28:47,680 –> 00:28:49,920
Pastor steps up and says, I’m
going to pay for the whole

473
00:28:49,920 –> 00:28:51,920
thing.
They’d already made a

474
00:28:51,920 –> 00:28:53,440
collection.
What do we do with the rest of

475
00:28:53,440 –> 00:28:55,640
the money?
We get him Uber rides because

476
00:28:55,640 –> 00:28:59,240
now he’s got vision problems and
those had some resolution and

477
00:28:59,240 –> 00:29:01,720
he’s much better.
And he’s very normal now.

478
00:29:01,880 –> 00:29:03,920
But at the time, these were big
things.

479
00:29:04,680 –> 00:29:06,120
How do you go to the grocery
store?

480
00:29:06,840 –> 00:29:10,400
You know, you can see some, but
he’s got significant damage.

481
00:29:11,160 –> 00:29:14,600
So it’s like everybody jumped
back, back in.

482
00:29:15,640 –> 00:29:20,360
I still look at this, Paul, and
I asked myself, if God looks at

483
00:29:20,360 –> 00:29:22,840
me and he says, you know, do you
think you did that season?

484
00:29:22,840 –> 00:29:26,640
Well, I’m going to answer, no, I
didn’t.

485
00:29:27,680 –> 00:29:30,320
I didn’t get up in the morning
and name it, claim it.

486
00:29:30,320 –> 00:29:32,400
I have no idea what’s going to
happen.

487
00:29:33,000 –> 00:29:36,400
I have no idea if I’m going to
live, if my son’s going to live,

488
00:29:37,160 –> 00:29:39,920
if my husband’s going to have to
put two of his family members in

489
00:29:39,920 –> 00:29:47,600
the ground or one or none.
Did I trust God?

490
00:29:47,680 –> 00:29:51,800
What does trust look like?
I think it looks like just

491
00:29:51,800 –> 00:29:58,160
breathing sometimes, in and out.
I think it looks like the small

492
00:29:58,320 –> 00:30:02,360
mercies that come upon you at
those times.

493
00:30:02,960 –> 00:30:06,440
The woman who’s a nurse who
showed up with a bag to take to

494
00:30:06,440 –> 00:30:10,800
the hospital that had bottles of
water and a notepad so I could

495
00:30:10,800 –> 00:30:13,400
take notes when the doctor
showed up, who would have

496
00:30:13,400 –> 00:30:17,240
thought of that?
You know, I wouldn’t have people

497
00:30:17,240 –> 00:30:21,880
who, without asking, dropped my
son off homemade frozen meals

498
00:30:21,880 –> 00:30:24,840
and stocked his refrigerator so
he didn’t have to worry about

499
00:30:24,840 –> 00:30:28,960
eating and stuff like that that
I didn’t ask for.

500
00:30:28,960 –> 00:30:31,320
I didn’t lay in bed and say,
God, can you do these things?

501
00:30:31,320 –> 00:30:34,480
Here’s what I need.
I just said if you could help,

502
00:30:34,480 –> 00:30:37,160
that would be great.
If you could spare us, that

503
00:30:37,160 –> 00:30:39,720
would be great.
So what does trust look like?

504
00:30:39,720 –> 00:30:43,480
Sometimes trust just looks like
accepting the hit.

505
00:30:44,280 –> 00:30:46,800
Yeah.
And praying I, I don’t know if

506
00:30:46,800 –> 00:30:50,080
that’s a good answer or not,
Paul, but it’s exactly what I

507
00:30:50,080 –> 00:30:54,240
went through.
I look back now and I’m stunned

508
00:30:54,240 –> 00:30:57,800
at my own story.
I don’t know how we got through

509
00:30:57,800 –> 00:31:02,240
all those days, but we did.
And I do know that God had

510
00:31:02,240 –> 00:31:07,280
mechanisms in in place that
again stepped up to the plate to

511
00:31:07,280 –> 00:31:09,040
help us get across the finish
line.

512
00:31:11,320 –> 00:31:15,560
You know, it’s so hard in those
spaces is we do have this

513
00:31:16,120 –> 00:31:20,960
mentality pushed into us that it
should be the name it claim it,

514
00:31:20,960 –> 00:31:24,560
that it should be the you get up
and you worship and you pray.

515
00:31:25,080 –> 00:31:28,080
And when we have those moments
where it’s like God, I don’t

516
00:31:28,160 –> 00:31:30,800
even have words for you.
I don’t want to talk to you

517
00:31:30,800 –> 00:31:34,840
right now like that feels like
we’re being faithless.

518
00:31:35,320 –> 00:31:39,600
But what you just described and
what’s showing up in trust means

519
00:31:40,080 –> 00:31:43,520
is sure, if it is those other
things, great.

520
00:31:44,120 –> 00:31:49,120
But what I hear in your story is
that when given the opportunity

521
00:31:49,680 –> 00:31:55,040
to still live as though God is
God, or to say forget you

522
00:31:56,040 –> 00:31:59,240
because you let me down, you
chose the former.

523
00:31:59,600 –> 00:32:03,680
Even if you had nothing to give
in that other than like not

524
00:32:03,680 –> 00:32:06,560
giving up on God.
That was the choice.

525
00:32:06,560 –> 00:32:10,600
It made me think of Shadrach,
Meshach, and Abednego, and they

526
00:32:10,600 –> 00:32:12,360
were trying to faithfully serve
God.

527
00:32:12,960 –> 00:32:15,320
And then things kept getting
worse to the point where they’re

528
00:32:15,320 –> 00:32:19,680
brought before Nebuchadnezzar
and told bluntly, if you don’t

529
00:32:19,760 –> 00:32:23,040
bow down, I’m throwing you in
the furnace.

530
00:32:24,080 –> 00:32:28,840
And they know know who God is
and they know they are resolved

531
00:32:28,840 –> 00:32:30,760
to serve him.
But they’re probably really

532
00:32:30,760 –> 00:32:33,040
confused.
Why is he let it get this bad

533
00:32:33,640 –> 00:32:36,240
and not just being thrown in the
furnace, but Nebuchadnezzar is

534
00:32:36,240 –> 00:32:40,560
like losing his mind with fury
heated up to six times.

535
00:32:40,560 –> 00:32:43,200
It’s heat like so hot the guards
are dying.

536
00:32:43,680 –> 00:32:48,680
And what trust look like for
them was to say our God can save

537
00:32:48,680 –> 00:32:51,680
us, but even if he doesn’t,
we’re not going to bow down.

538
00:32:51,680 –> 00:32:54,600
In other words, what they’re
probably thinking is, I really

539
00:32:54,600 –> 00:32:57,760
hope he does save us, but it’s
starting to look like this might

540
00:32:57,760 –> 00:33:02,400
go worst case scenario.
Put another way, as I hear you

541
00:33:02,400 –> 00:33:05,680
talking and you kind of touched
on this earlier, a lot of times

542
00:33:05,680 –> 00:33:09,320
our struggle with trust is what
we’re trying to trust in, is

543
00:33:09,320 –> 00:33:12,800
what God would do rather than
trust in who God is.

544
00:33:13,160 –> 00:33:14,120
Right.
Yes.

545
00:33:14,720 –> 00:33:17,720
And that’s hard because there’s
a lot we want God to do, and

546
00:33:17,720 –> 00:33:20,560
there’s a lot about who He is
that we either don’t understand

547
00:33:20,560 –> 00:33:24,040
or in the moment don’t like.
That’s hard, right?

548
00:33:24,200 –> 00:33:27,720
But I love what you’ve shared is
that the answer there isn’t to

549
00:33:27,720 –> 00:33:32,160
suddenly become this robust
theologian or to exude this

550
00:33:32,160 –> 00:33:37,640
beautiful Worshipful faith.
It is, you know, I hope God does

551
00:33:37,640 –> 00:33:40,160
this, but even if he doesn’t,
I’m not bound down to anything

552
00:33:40,160 –> 00:33:42,360
else.
That’s hard enough on its own.

553
00:33:42,360 –> 00:33:44,360
But you know, I thought about
this earlier.

554
00:33:44,360 –> 00:33:48,040
The other hard part about
navigating trust is you are

555
00:33:48,040 –> 00:33:50,600
navigating your own
understanding of trust while

556
00:33:50,600 –> 00:33:54,920
also dealing with external
understandings of trust.

557
00:33:55,560 –> 00:33:58,560
And you’re probably getting
voices in these hard seasons

558
00:33:58,560 –> 00:34:01,000
from both.
In the spectrum, you’ve got

559
00:34:01,000 –> 00:34:04,240
people who are saying to you,
like Joe’s friends said to him,

560
00:34:04,600 –> 00:34:08,480
You used to lead people right?
You used to represent God well.

561
00:34:08,480 –> 00:34:11,920
So why are you so bitter and
angry like you need to shape up?

562
00:34:12,080 –> 00:34:15,120
Because you should be talking
better about God right now, Joe,

563
00:34:15,120 –> 00:34:16,600
you know better than this.
Right.

564
00:34:16,920 –> 00:34:19,600
And in the other end of the
spectrum is like Job’s wife

565
00:34:19,600 –> 00:34:23,760
saying it’s clear, just curse
him and die, right?

566
00:34:24,320 –> 00:34:30,239
And so here you are wanting to
trust God, being thrust in this

567
00:34:30,239 –> 00:34:32,320
situation where you’re like,
God, you’re asking the

568
00:34:32,320 –> 00:34:34,480
impossible of me.
And I imagine there are these

569
00:34:34,480 –> 00:34:38,600
voices across the spectrum.
So how do you navigate other

570
00:34:38,600 –> 00:34:41,560
people’s understanding of what
it means to trust God as you’re

571
00:34:41,560 –> 00:34:44,000
trying to learn yourself how to
trust God?

572
00:34:45,239 –> 00:34:47,719
I might not like what I’m going
to say I’m one of.

573
00:34:48,199 –> 00:34:54,199
I think I am going to like it.
I don’t tolerate anymore.

574
00:34:54,280 –> 00:34:56,199
I used to as a younger
Christian.

575
00:34:56,920 –> 00:35:01,240
I wanted to be a good girl and
show myself study to be approved

576
00:35:01,240 –> 00:35:06,960
and I did all the things I could
do to be a part of the tribe in

577
00:35:06,960 –> 00:35:10,040
an acceptable way.
And I’m, I, I love my friends,

578
00:35:10,920 –> 00:35:14,480
but I don’t tolerate anymore the
question that says, well, what

579
00:35:14,480 –> 00:35:16,840
is it, Noel?
Do you think God’s trying to

580
00:35:16,840 –> 00:35:20,960
work out in you because he let
you go through this?

581
00:35:21,840 –> 00:35:24,040
I don’t let it in anymore.
And I’ll tell them to their

582
00:35:24,040 –> 00:35:26,640
face.
That’s not helpful and it’s not

583
00:35:26,640 –> 00:35:30,360
biblically accurate.
There are lots of people in

584
00:35:30,360 –> 00:35:34,160
Scripture who went through all
kinds of stuff who don’t have

585
00:35:34,160 –> 00:35:37,160
the why.
We don’t often get the why.

586
00:35:37,480 –> 00:35:42,200
Sometimes we just have the is.
And so all I know is I have to

587
00:35:42,200 –> 00:35:45,280
go through this.
And all I know is I don’t want

588
00:35:45,280 –> 00:35:49,200
my kid to die.
And all I know is God has shown

589
00:35:49,200 –> 00:35:54,640
me year after year after year
that he’s here.

590
00:35:54,640 –> 00:36:00,040
I have undeniable moments that
don’t make sense that he’s here,

591
00:36:01,160 –> 00:36:06,920
and I can’t walk away from what
I know simply because you’re

592
00:36:06,920 –> 00:36:11,440
being kind of insensitive and
unwise.

593
00:36:11,920 –> 00:36:15,480
I don’t tolerate people telling
me what God is or is not doing

594
00:36:15,480 –> 00:36:18,160
in my heart.
I don’t tolerate people telling

595
00:36:18,160 –> 00:36:21,200
me that they’re perceiving that
my motivations are wrong, which

596
00:36:21,200 –> 00:36:23,440
is a scripturally terrible thing
for you to do.

597
00:36:23,680 –> 00:36:26,320
We’re told not to judge people’s
motivations.

598
00:36:26,320 –> 00:36:28,280
That’s a God thing.
We can judge their fruit, but

599
00:36:28,280 –> 00:36:31,440
not their motivations.
And I would hope that the fruit

600
00:36:31,440 –> 00:36:34,680
of my life shows something
positive about the fact that I

601
00:36:34,680 –> 00:36:38,680
believe in God and I believe
that Jesus came and that he did

602
00:36:38,680 –> 00:36:41,400
all he said he did so that I
might live all that I have

603
00:36:41,400 –> 00:36:43,960
lived.
OK, so you can’t come to me and

604
00:36:43,960 –> 00:36:46,480
tell me.
You know, I think God’s allowing

605
00:36:46,680 –> 00:36:50,600
your son to suffer so that you
can learn some awful thing that

606
00:36:50,600 –> 00:36:54,040
you didn’t get before in life.
That maybe your mom being a

607
00:36:54,040 –> 00:36:59,080
lunatic and pretending that she
had an abdominal tumor when in

608
00:36:59,080 –> 00:37:01,400
fact she was pregnant with a
man’s baby.

609
00:37:01,400 –> 00:37:04,680
That and she doesn’t even know
his name and lied to the

610
00:37:04,680 –> 00:37:08,200
community and then gave birth.
And that’s crazy story, right?

611
00:37:08,200 –> 00:37:10,560
Who does that?
Crazy people do that?

612
00:37:10,880 –> 00:37:15,280
All I’m saying is that I will
not let anyone divert me from

613
00:37:15,280 –> 00:37:19,640
what I do know, which is that
I’m not perfect.

614
00:37:20,840 –> 00:37:23,560
I’ve done bad things.
Sometimes I say bad words and I

615
00:37:23,560 –> 00:37:26,560
shouldn’t, and I know that.
So it makes me imperfect, and my

616
00:37:26,560 –> 00:37:29,280
imperfection makes it so that I
need a savior.

617
00:37:29,320 –> 00:37:30,840
And I get that.
I want that.

618
00:37:31,720 –> 00:37:35,200
But I don’t want you telling me
that I have to now go through

619
00:37:35,200 –> 00:37:40,400
cancer or I have to watch my son
lay in an ICU unit in the

620
00:37:40,400 –> 00:37:43,760
neurosurgical side of the
hospital because of something

621
00:37:43,760 –> 00:37:46,080
that God needs to weed out in
me.

622
00:37:46,920 –> 00:37:50,360
I think that you’re taking a
position of moral and spiritual

623
00:37:50,360 –> 00:37:53,120
superiority about my life when
you do that.

624
00:37:54,280 –> 00:37:59,200
The humble thing to do is to sit
and say, this is hurting.

625
00:37:59,800 –> 00:38:03,720
I’ll hurt with you.
If they’re crying, let it

626
00:38:03,720 –> 00:38:05,720
happen.
Cry with them because there’s a

627
00:38:05,720 –> 00:38:08,040
good reason most of the time if
they’re crying.

628
00:38:09,240 –> 00:38:11,320
But I find that very difficult
for people.

629
00:38:11,880 –> 00:38:13,760
A lot of people are
uncomfortable.

630
00:38:13,760 –> 00:38:15,600
They don’t know how to sit in
the pain with you.

631
00:38:16,560 –> 00:38:19,400
And maybe that’s something that
God has really worked out

632
00:38:19,400 –> 00:38:23,840
through all of this because I
find myself drawn to those

633
00:38:23,840 –> 00:38:27,400
moments now.
I, I, this is so stupid.

634
00:38:27,960 –> 00:38:31,960
I am going to go on a trip in
less than two weeks and I’m very

635
00:38:31,960 –> 00:38:34,840
excited about it.
It’s part of my eye Beat cancer

636
00:38:34,840 –> 00:38:36,600
comeback tour.
That’s what I tell people.

637
00:38:37,000 –> 00:38:42,120
So I’m going to go to Italy and
I want to go to Rome and I want

638
00:38:42,120 –> 00:38:45,480
to go to the Pantheon because I
know that Paul would have seen

639
00:38:45,480 –> 00:38:46,880
the Pantheon.
He would have.

640
00:38:47,160 –> 00:38:48,960
It was the center of Rome at the
time.

641
00:38:49,280 –> 00:38:51,560
I want to go walk the Palatine
Gardens.

642
00:38:51,920 –> 00:38:54,040
I don’t even know if I is it.
Is it Palatini?

643
00:38:54,040 –> 00:38:55,720
I have no idea, but I think it’s
called.

644
00:38:55,880 –> 00:38:59,480
Follow your heart.
Yeah, I’m not Italian.

645
00:38:59,640 –> 00:39:02,360
I don’t know.
I get to do the rare ones dance

646
00:39:02,560 –> 00:39:06,600
in Rome and I’m stoked about it
and I might right in the middle

647
00:39:06,600 –> 00:39:09,200
of the Piazza do that.
Who knows if a good song counts

648
00:39:09,200 –> 00:39:13,520
on, but So I’ll have to say that
I have this thing to just touch

649
00:39:13,520 –> 00:39:18,080
history a little bit and to see
the things Paul saw at that time

650
00:39:18,080 –> 00:39:21,960
when it was tough.
They light you on fire over

651
00:39:21,960 –> 00:39:26,080
Nero’s dinner.
OK, so you know that it was a

652
00:39:26,080 –> 00:39:29,120
Those people had a bad.
I’m still here.

653
00:39:29,240 –> 00:39:32,480
So I was going to go get luggage
for Rome, and I go to this

654
00:39:32,480 –> 00:39:34,840
expensive luggage shop.
It’s stupid.

655
00:39:34,840 –> 00:39:38,680
Is it such a stupid thing?
I just want to say it, I have

656
00:39:38,680 –> 00:39:41,160
always wanted this.
I feel so bad.

657
00:39:42,160 –> 00:39:45,440
A matching pair of luggage.
I don’t know why.

658
00:39:45,920 –> 00:39:48,720
My whole life I’ve done, you
know, the hillbilly thing, you

659
00:39:48,720 –> 00:39:51,520
just whatever bag you got and
you stick it in the plane, you

660
00:39:51,520 –> 00:39:54,120
put a ribbon on it.
But I just thought, you know, it

661
00:39:54,120 –> 00:39:58,040
just seems so awesome to be in
an airport with matching

662
00:39:58,040 –> 00:40:00,200
luggage.
And it’s dumb, Paul.

663
00:40:00,200 –> 00:40:03,360
I know it’s dumb and I know, and
it’s it’s carnal and I get it.

664
00:40:03,760 –> 00:40:05,640
But you know what?
I want it.

665
00:40:05,920 –> 00:40:08,280
I’ve saved up for it.
So I thought I’m going to I’m

666
00:40:08,320 –> 00:40:10,800
going to get a piece of luggage.
I take it in there.

667
00:40:10,800 –> 00:40:13,360
Oh jeez.
To go get my initials.

668
00:40:14,240 –> 00:40:16,400
I sent you that little stamp
here initial.

669
00:40:16,720 –> 00:40:18,560
I’m like, Oh yes, this is so
good.

670
00:40:19,400 –> 00:40:22,440
I go in there and there’s this
little gal and she looks up at

671
00:40:22,440 –> 00:40:25,440
me.
You can see that one eye is off,

672
00:40:26,360 –> 00:40:28,880
you know, living with an eye
that’s off that that’s got to be

673
00:40:28,880 –> 00:40:31,320
hard, right?
It has to be hard because it’s

674
00:40:31,320 –> 00:40:34,200
something people see right away
and people notice that lack of

675
00:40:34,200 –> 00:40:36,400
symmetry in a human face.
It’s just the thing.

676
00:40:37,040 –> 00:40:39,520
And so I look at her and
immediately I’m hit with like,

677
00:40:39,520 –> 00:40:42,120
oh, bless you.
You know, we start talking.

678
00:40:42,120 –> 00:40:44,480
She’s very professional.
I liked her very much.

679
00:40:45,320 –> 00:40:47,240
So she says, well, why are you
going to go?

680
00:40:47,240 –> 00:40:49,320
And to Italy?
I’ve never, she goes, I’ve never

681
00:40:49,320 –> 00:40:52,120
been.
And I said, well, it’s my IB

682
00:40:52,120 –> 00:40:55,160
cancer, come back to her.
I’m going to go and I want to

683
00:40:55,160 –> 00:40:58,160
see these places.
And I mentioned about Paul and

684
00:40:58,560 –> 00:41:03,160
Nero and all of that.
And she says, oh, what a dream.

685
00:41:03,680 –> 00:41:09,920
You know, my mom died of cancer.
Now my choice is real clear.

686
00:41:10,880 –> 00:41:12,320
I’m here to get my luggage
stamped.

687
00:41:13,400 –> 00:41:19,080
Let’s do that.
Or take EU turn and say, I’m so

688
00:41:19,080 –> 00:41:21,600
sorry.
How did that go?

689
00:41:21,600 –> 00:41:24,800
Talk to me about it.
This is a woman who lost her

690
00:41:24,800 –> 00:41:29,680
mother 18 months ago, and she
needed in that moment to tell me

691
00:41:29,960 –> 00:41:34,320
everything was pancreatic cancer
and how fast her mom went and

692
00:41:34,320 –> 00:41:35,960
how difficult it’s been to say
goodbye.

693
00:41:37,280 –> 00:41:39,360
And I stood there and I had a
choice.

694
00:41:40,440 –> 00:41:44,560
And you know what I’m going to
do because people did it for me.

695
00:41:44,560 –> 00:41:47,440
I love because I have been
loved.

696
00:41:47,800 –> 00:41:51,560
I have compassion because I have
been given compassion.

697
00:41:52,680 –> 00:41:55,720
I have patience because I’ve
been given patience.

698
00:41:56,520 –> 00:42:01,560
And so I made a 5 minute trip an
hour long and at the end I

699
00:42:01,560 –> 00:42:06,000
reached out in a hunter and she
said I needed this so badly

700
00:42:06,000 –> 00:42:09,520
today.
And inside of myself I thought,

701
00:42:09,760 –> 00:42:14,160
thank you God, thank you, that
this stupid thing of needing

702
00:42:14,160 –> 00:42:19,080
matching luggage with my stupid
name on it, you turned into

703
00:42:19,080 –> 00:42:23,320
gold.
The real stuff for some unseen

704
00:42:23,320 –> 00:42:28,400
person in a luggage shop.
That to me is the proper outcome

705
00:42:28,400 –> 00:42:32,400
of trusting God.
You take forward into the

706
00:42:32,400 –> 00:42:37,040
experiences that God sets before
you a renewed vigor and vision

707
00:42:37,400 –> 00:42:39,800
for your place in the larger
world.

708
00:42:40,840 –> 00:42:47,160
Because I’ve been forgiven much
and because of that I feel very

709
00:42:47,160 –> 00:42:52,440
motivated now, more so than even
before my cancer, to give it

710
00:42:52,440 –> 00:42:55,360
away.
You know, it’s interesting

711
00:42:55,360 –> 00:42:58,720
because it’s not like you were
there because you had started

712
00:42:58,720 –> 00:43:02,800
this comfort ministry.
You were getting luggage, right?

713
00:43:02,800 –> 00:43:06,040
You’re getting it monogrammed.
And and yet there is something

714
00:43:06,040 –> 00:43:10,040
within you that was locked in to
be an ambassador of Christ and

715
00:43:10,040 –> 00:43:15,240
thus was attentive to that quiet
invitation and aware of the

716
00:43:15,240 –> 00:43:17,920
choice.
This was supposed to be 5

717
00:43:17,920 –> 00:43:21,160
minutes but I want to represent
God.

718
00:43:21,160 –> 00:43:22,640
It made me think of I pulled it
up.

719
00:43:22,640 –> 00:43:24,640
Second Corinthians 1/3 through
5.

720
00:43:25,240 –> 00:43:27,800
Praise be to the God and Father
of our Lord Jesus Christ, the

721
00:43:27,800 –> 00:43:32,000
Father of compassion and the God
of all comfort, who comforts us

722
00:43:32,000 –> 00:43:37,000
in all our troubles, so that we
can comfort those in any trouble

723
00:43:37,240 –> 00:43:39,680
with the comfort we ourselves
receive from God.

724
00:43:39,960 –> 00:43:44,240
For just as we share abundantly
in the sufferings of Christ, so

725
00:43:44,240 –> 00:43:47,000
also our comfort abounds through
Christ.

726
00:43:47,840 –> 00:43:50,600
Here’s what’s wild is there’s
elements of that that all

727
00:43:50,600 –> 00:43:52,880
Christians could get behind.
Oh yeah, it’s good to comfort

728
00:43:52,880 –> 00:43:55,760
other people.
But if we’re really reading that

729
00:43:56,280 –> 00:44:00,640
and thinking of the full context
and taking it as far as what you

730
00:44:00,640 –> 00:44:05,000
shared about what Paul ends up
experiencing not too long after

731
00:44:05,000 –> 00:44:07,000
writing that, you know, we need
notes.

732
00:44:07,320 –> 00:44:09,120
Sharing in the sufferings of
Christ.

733
00:44:09,120 –> 00:44:12,840
Well we want a life with God to
be 1 without suffering.

734
00:44:13,560 –> 00:44:17,640
So what happens is you’re
talking about how people come to

735
00:44:17,640 –> 00:44:22,000
us and this unhelpful way that
we as Christians sometimes

736
00:44:22,000 –> 00:44:25,360
approach others.
And what it reveals is sometimes

737
00:44:25,360 –> 00:44:30,280
our theology is best based less
on God and more on ourselves.

738
00:44:30,720 –> 00:44:33,040
Our theology is based on a
desire.

739
00:44:33,040 –> 00:44:36,920
For control or comfort or.
Security and so much of

740
00:44:36,920 –> 00:44:40,120
scripture is the opposite of
that, at least on a human level.

741
00:44:40,280 –> 00:44:42,880
Sharing in the sufferings of
Christ is not comfortable.

742
00:44:43,280 –> 00:44:45,200
Jesus says in this world you
will have trouble.

743
00:44:45,480 –> 00:44:50,440
But Jesus knew that there was an
eternal reality and he is trying

744
00:44:50,680 –> 00:44:54,480
so patiently to get us to
understand that the here and now

745
00:44:54,480 –> 00:44:57,360
is not the point.
There is something eternal, but

746
00:44:57,360 –> 00:44:59,600
we as humans get so locked into
it.

747
00:44:59,600 –> 00:45:04,160
So we see somebody crying and
our first gut response is how

748
00:45:04,160 –> 00:45:06,040
can I get them to not be sad
anymore?

749
00:45:06,520 –> 00:45:10,200
Or if they keep on being sad,
how can I keep myself from

750
00:45:10,200 –> 00:45:15,280
getting drawn into this?
But if our theology could be

751
00:45:15,280 –> 00:45:19,560
shaped more by love God, love
others rather than love and self

752
00:45:19,560 –> 00:45:23,440
preservation of self, we’d see
ourselves operating a lot

753
00:45:23,440 –> 00:45:26,080
differently.
And so here you are now.

754
00:45:26,920 –> 00:45:29,240
You’ve had this lifetime of
experiences.

755
00:45:30,080 –> 00:45:34,440
You’ve had these early hardships
and then you had these later

756
00:45:34,440 –> 00:45:40,800
hardships and here you are
waking each day working to make

757
00:45:41,120 –> 00:45:44,320
theological sense of it all,
working to make personal sense

758
00:45:44,560 –> 00:45:47,880
of it all, working also just to
be like, I, I just woke up and I

759
00:45:47,880 –> 00:45:52,120
don’t even have the brain with
like to even figure out if I

760
00:45:52,120 –> 00:45:55,600
have coffee yet or not.
And you’re navigating this as a

761
00:45:55,600 –> 00:46:00,040
human, and yet God has
positioned you to not just live

762
00:46:00,040 –> 00:46:03,600
in isolation, but you’re living
in community, as you’ve touched

763
00:46:03,600 –> 00:46:07,080
on several times.
You’re going on podcasts and

764
00:46:07,120 –> 00:46:12,000
sharing with people wherever.
And you are a professor

765
00:46:12,040 –> 00:46:15,360
encountering students who are
coming to you saying, I don’t

766
00:46:15,360 –> 00:46:18,440
know how I’m going to pay the
tuition for this year.

767
00:46:18,840 –> 00:46:23,640
And it’s hard to trust God.
And so as you think of where God

768
00:46:23,640 –> 00:46:26,440
has LED you throughout your
lifetime and where he has

769
00:46:26,440 –> 00:46:31,760
positioned you today, how do you
understand this vocation of

770
00:46:31,800 –> 00:46:36,240
ambassador of Christ that you’re
living alongside all the other

771
00:46:36,240 –> 00:46:40,880
ways that you’re living?
Wow, it’s kind of funny.

772
00:46:40,880 –> 00:46:43,680
I I don’t wake up and think of
myself as an ambassador of

773
00:46:43,680 –> 00:46:46,200
Christ.
Kind of makes me want to sit a

774
00:46:46,200 –> 00:46:50,400
little taller.
I just feel fortunate.

775
00:46:51,800 –> 00:46:54,640
I feel fortunate.
I know, as I said at the

776
00:46:54,640 –> 00:46:59,200
beginning, who I am.
I’m very aware, more aware of my

777
00:46:59,200 –> 00:47:00,920
shortcomings and I like to think
about.

778
00:47:01,840 –> 00:47:05,480
I also know what God has done
and He’s done an impossible

779
00:47:05,480 –> 00:47:08,080
thing with my life.
I am a professor.

780
00:47:08,120 –> 00:47:12,280
I shouldn’t be, and I know it.
And I’m in the music department

781
00:47:12,640 –> 00:47:16,560
with all the weirdos and I love
them because we all speak the

782
00:47:16,560 –> 00:47:19,040
same weirdo language, didn’t you
know?

783
00:47:19,320 –> 00:47:22,720
I love working with my students
because I see myself in them.

784
00:47:23,000 –> 00:47:28,560
I see my children in them and I
also know that I’ve been given

785
00:47:28,560 –> 00:47:31,960
the nickname on our campus from
time to time as worship mom

786
00:47:32,560 –> 00:47:35,880
because I have a role to play.
You know, I have a role where

787
00:47:35,880 –> 00:47:39,160
they are away from home and they
are looking for something steady

788
00:47:39,880 –> 00:47:43,200
and they don’t want to be told a
colloquialism.

789
00:47:44,320 –> 00:47:48,480
They want to be told the truth.
They don’t want some platitude,

790
00:47:48,760 –> 00:47:53,040
you know, and it’ll be OK, you
know, trust God with all your

791
00:47:53,040 –> 00:47:55,080
heart and lean not into your own
understanding.

792
00:47:55,080 –> 00:47:57,880
Of course that’s true.
That’s not what they’re needing.

793
00:47:57,880 –> 00:47:59,640
They don’t need to be preached
to right now.

794
00:47:59,800 –> 00:48:02,920
What they need is for worship.
Mom to say, you know, I see your

795
00:48:02,920 –> 00:48:05,720
pain and here it is and let’s
take a look at it.

796
00:48:06,320 –> 00:48:08,800
And, and I’ll sit here and talk
to you as long as you need me

797
00:48:08,800 –> 00:48:10,440
to.
And here’s my phone number if

798
00:48:10,440 –> 00:48:15,120
you need to talk later.
I feel that my life has purpose.

799
00:48:16,920 –> 00:48:22,480
I could have been living much
less than I am now, but I don’t

800
00:48:23,320 –> 00:48:28,120
and that has nothing to do other
than God gave me opportunities

801
00:48:28,120 –> 00:48:32,560
and I availed myself to them.
And now even the cancer,

802
00:48:32,920 –> 00:48:36,400
honestly, if you look at it, I I
would say is an opportunity

803
00:48:36,800 –> 00:48:41,280
because I’m still here.
I’m gone yet and one day I will.

804
00:48:41,920 –> 00:48:45,280
One day we all stand before Him.
I’m learning to get a little

805
00:48:45,280 –> 00:48:48,240
braver at looking at that fact
than I used to.

806
00:48:49,240 –> 00:48:52,640
I think at the end of the day, I
want people to know that I loved

807
00:48:52,640 –> 00:48:58,240
them well, and I am trusting
that God will make that happen.

808
00:48:59,520 –> 00:49:01,040
He’ll do his part and I’ll do
mine.

809
00:49:02,200 –> 00:49:04,200
You know, one thing that’s come
on my mind is you’re sharing

810
00:49:04,200 –> 00:49:05,360
that.
I want to encourage you with

811
00:49:05,360 –> 00:49:07,800
his.
I love the fact that one of the

812
00:49:07,800 –> 00:49:11,000
things you’re most excited about
with this trip is standing where

813
00:49:11,240 –> 00:49:16,280
the apostle Paul stood.
This guy who was also navigating

814
00:49:16,280 –> 00:49:19,880
what it meant to be an
ambassador of Christ, who also

815
00:49:20,080 –> 00:49:24,040
knew the role that he had and
said I should not be in this

816
00:49:24,040 –> 00:49:27,560
role because I’m here telling
people about Jesus.

817
00:49:28,120 –> 00:49:31,440
But previously I was killing
people who talked about Jesus

818
00:49:31,440 –> 00:49:37,320
like I’m no right, right, right.
And then, you know, you’re

819
00:49:37,320 –> 00:49:42,120
sitting here sharing about how
there’s still days that you’re

820
00:49:42,280 –> 00:49:44,400
like, I’m not doing what I feel
like I should be doing.

821
00:49:44,400 –> 00:49:46,640
That’s what the apostle Paul
said is I don’t understand what

822
00:49:46,640 –> 00:49:49,440
I do because what I want to do,
I don’t do and what I hate to

823
00:49:49,440 –> 00:49:54,120
do, I do.
And I love that you are aiming

824
00:49:54,120 –> 00:49:59,360
to stand where he stood and he
stood in similar places where

825
00:49:59,360 –> 00:50:02,280
you stand.
Different story in a lot of

826
00:50:02,280 –> 00:50:07,520
ways, but some of these core
truths and more importantly the

827
00:50:07,520 –> 00:50:11,640
core truth that he realized that
he was still learning and

828
00:50:11,640 –> 00:50:15,680
discerning what it meant to
actually seek God.

829
00:50:16,560 –> 00:50:18,600
Love others.
Not that I have achieved

830
00:50:18,600 –> 00:50:20,680
perfection, but I continue to
run the race.

831
00:50:20,680 –> 00:50:23,400
And so I just.
Want to encourage you because I

832
00:50:23,400 –> 00:50:26,760
love where this whole
conversation is gone, but there

833
00:50:26,760 –> 00:50:29,600
is so much that you shared with
a vulnerability and

834
00:50:29,600 –> 00:50:34,320
transparency, but also an
honesty because as you noted,

835
00:50:34,720 –> 00:50:36,760
there’s a lot of stuff that
we’ve talked about that the.

836
00:50:36,760 –> 00:50:38,640
Church really doesn’t want to
talk about sometimes.

837
00:50:40,200 –> 00:50:42,760
And doesn’t know how to talk
about it because it usually

838
00:50:42,760 –> 00:50:44,960
doesn’t have a nice bow to tie
onto it.

839
00:50:45,240 –> 00:50:47,720
No nice bow.
That’s a great book title.

840
00:50:49,560 –> 00:50:51,160
We’ll see which one of us gets
to it first.

841
00:50:53,520 –> 00:50:57,920
I love how God is using not just
your story, but your stories,

842
00:50:58,520 –> 00:51:02,160
including the one that’s still
being written and your

843
00:51:02,160 –> 00:51:05,960
willingness to be an ongoing
participant as it’s being

844
00:51:05,960 –> 00:51:08,160
written.
The way you talk is, is though,

845
00:51:08,160 –> 00:51:10,360
you know, you’re not even the
main character.

846
00:51:11,440 –> 00:51:15,000
God is the main character in all
of this.

847
00:51:15,080 –> 00:51:18,840
And part of our journey and
learning to trust him is the

848
00:51:18,840 –> 00:51:21,760
more we learn who he actually
is, is the main character, the

849
00:51:21,760 –> 00:51:25,080
more we understand who we are in
that story.

850
00:51:25,080 –> 00:51:29,000
And so there’s so much more that
we could talk about.

851
00:51:29,200 –> 00:51:32,360
If somebody’s listening and they
want to connect with you or

852
00:51:32,360 –> 00:51:35,000
learn more of your story, how
can they do so?

853
00:51:35,480 –> 00:51:38,080
If they want to connect with me,
I’m on Instagram under my name,

854
00:51:38,080 –> 00:51:40,280
Noel Kablay.
I could always DM me if you

855
00:51:40,280 –> 00:51:42,520
want.
And as far as books, I have two

856
00:51:42,520 –> 00:51:45,720
books, The first ones called
Pieces of Sky and it’s the

857
00:51:45,720 –> 00:51:48,360
memoir of my childhood that is
nuts.

858
00:51:48,360 –> 00:51:50,880
And I won two national awards
for that one.

859
00:51:51,320 –> 00:51:54,200
And then the new book is called
Washed in Blue.

860
00:51:54,960 –> 00:51:57,480
It just won its first award in
January.

861
00:51:57,480 –> 00:51:59,840
I’m up for a couple others.
We’ll see what the Lord does.

862
00:51:59,840 –> 00:52:01,320
Congratulations.
Can I share one?

863
00:52:01,680 –> 00:52:03,240
Do we have time for?
Me to share this one.

864
00:52:03,280 –> 00:52:04,800
You share what you want to
share.

865
00:52:05,960 –> 00:52:09,040
Washington Blues named because
of the last chapter.

866
00:52:09,760 –> 00:52:13,600
I tell the story from the
appearance of cancer, through

867
00:52:13,600 –> 00:52:16,200
the diagnosis, through the
treatment, through the

868
00:52:16,200 –> 00:52:19,040
chemotherapy radiation, and I
don’t hold back.

869
00:52:19,160 –> 00:52:21,960
I tell the truth of what it is.
Women who are going to go

870
00:52:21,960 –> 00:52:24,840
through this, they need to know.
And I’ve had them tell me.

871
00:52:24,840 –> 00:52:27,040
This was a tough read, but it
you were right.

872
00:52:27,560 –> 00:52:30,600
And I also wanted to bring honor
to the medical people who, you

873
00:52:30,600 –> 00:52:33,080
know, saved my life.
And I really wanted to live on

874
00:52:33,080 –> 00:52:36,480
my community and share that.
You know, I live in Southern

875
00:52:36,480 –> 00:52:38,880
California and there are a lot
of stereotypes about the people

876
00:52:38,880 –> 00:52:41,240
here.
And we really busted those up in

877
00:52:41,240 –> 00:52:43,080
this story.
And I, I love that.

878
00:52:44,400 –> 00:52:46,200
But the book isn’t named for
that.

879
00:52:46,520 –> 00:52:49,280
The book is named for what
happened in the last chapter.

880
00:52:50,160 –> 00:52:52,840
The last chapter takes place in
Saint Chapelle in France.

881
00:52:52,840 –> 00:52:56,840
I was told I was Ned on March
23rd of 2024.

882
00:52:57,600 –> 00:52:59,280
And the doctor looks at me and
goes, where are you going to?

883
00:52:59,280 –> 00:53:01,200
What are you going to do now?
And I said, I’m going to Europe

884
00:53:01,760 –> 00:53:03,800
and my husband goes, what?
I go, yeah, we’re leaving in

885
00:53:03,800 –> 00:53:05,640
three weeks.
I said if I’m Ned, I’m going to

886
00:53:05,640 –> 00:53:07,720
book the trip.
And that was the thing.

887
00:53:08,040 –> 00:53:12,160
So off we go. 3 weeks later, the
second day we were there, we

888
00:53:12,160 –> 00:53:15,160
ended up going to Saint Chapelle
in Paris, France.

889
00:53:15,160 –> 00:53:18,800
You have Notre Dame, and right
across the street is this Chapel

890
00:53:18,800 –> 00:53:22,200
that was built for the king.
Notre Dame wasn’t open because

891
00:53:22,200 –> 00:53:24,960
it had had a fire.
So I booked tickets to go

892
00:53:24,960 –> 00:53:26,320
because I’ve always wanted to
see.

893
00:53:26,640 –> 00:53:32,520
The stained glass in the Chapel
itself is made with lapis lazuli

894
00:53:32,520 –> 00:53:35,840
that they ground up and they put
it in the silica.

895
00:53:35,840 –> 00:53:40,360
And this is in the 1200s.
In the 1200s, they had kilns

896
00:53:40,400 –> 00:53:43,280
with bellows.
You know, it’s got a specific

897
00:53:43,280 –> 00:53:45,960
color to it.
And as an artist, I’m drawn to

898
00:53:45,960 –> 00:53:48,480
color and sound.
I wanted to experience.

899
00:53:48,480 –> 00:53:52,040
I felt drawn to go.
So we get there to Saint

900
00:53:52,040 –> 00:53:56,080
Chappelle, and we finally make
it into the Chapel, and it’s

901
00:53:56,080 –> 00:53:58,760
glowing.
The sun’s coming through.

902
00:53:58,760 –> 00:54:02,440
And you can see the particulates
in the air are shiny, like

903
00:54:02,440 –> 00:54:06,960
silver in the blue glow.
And we walk around and we had

904
00:54:06,960 –> 00:54:10,800
headphones, and I started to
feel tired because I was only,

905
00:54:10,800 –> 00:54:12,880
you know, a month out of my
radiation.

906
00:54:13,360 –> 00:54:15,320
So I thought, I’ll just sit in
one of these chairs.

907
00:54:15,320 –> 00:54:18,440
So I sit in the chair.
And as I’m sitting there, I felt

908
00:54:18,440 –> 00:54:22,160
this wave of grief hit me.
I wasn’t expecting it.

909
00:54:23,200 –> 00:54:26,360
But as I sat there, I just
thought, you know, God, I don’t

910
00:54:26,360 –> 00:54:29,640
ask you this very often.
And I may not know.

911
00:54:30,440 –> 00:54:34,440
I’d sure like to figure out why
I’ve been through so much.

912
00:54:35,080 –> 00:54:39,480
And this was tough.
Why me, Why my son, why now?

913
00:54:40,000 –> 00:54:43,280
And I, I know I don’t deserve
more than anything that anyone

914
00:54:43,280 –> 00:54:44,880
else does, I don’t deserve
anything.

915
00:54:45,480 –> 00:54:47,840
But yet I am your kid.
So why?

916
00:54:47,840 –> 00:54:52,400
I didn’t have any words, I just
felt myself start to cry and I

917
00:54:52,800 –> 00:54:56,520
slowly reached up and wiped a
tear away and it just would not

918
00:54:56,520 –> 00:54:58,360
stop.
It wasn’t overt, I wasn’t

919
00:54:58,680 –> 00:55:01,040
bellowing, there was nothing.
I was just sitting there in

920
00:55:01,040 –> 00:55:04,240
silence and all the tourists are
around me.

921
00:55:05,560 –> 00:55:10,040
It just was a scene, this one
woman with very little hair

922
00:55:10,360 –> 00:55:14,160
sitting in this space.
And I’m looking at the panels,

923
00:55:14,160 –> 00:55:16,960
and all of the panels were
stories from the Bible.

924
00:55:17,520 –> 00:55:21,840
Starts with Genesis and it goes
to Acts, and it even has a thing

925
00:55:21,840 –> 00:55:23,560
with the king getting the crown
of thorns.

926
00:55:23,560 –> 00:55:24,960
You know, I always have to have
the king in there.

927
00:55:24,960 –> 00:55:28,760
And as I’m sitting there, I
realized something.

928
00:55:30,520 –> 00:55:35,400
I’m the girl from Oklahoma.
I walked on the train tracks in

929
00:55:35,400 –> 00:55:41,000
the middle of August, hungry and
tired and no hope for my future.

930
00:55:41,680 –> 00:55:45,360
And you took pity on her God.
And somehow this girl from

931
00:55:45,360 –> 00:55:50,080
Oklahoma got back to California,
and she ended up going through a

932
00:55:50,080 –> 00:55:52,840
series of events that led her to
SDSU.

933
00:55:52,840 –> 00:55:56,200
And I got a degree, and I got to
make something in my life when I

934
00:55:56,200 –> 00:56:00,960
had nothing 10 years earlier.
And so the art of becoming me

935
00:56:00,960 –> 00:56:03,960
really has to do with the art of
who you are.

936
00:56:04,680 –> 00:56:07,360
And I’m looking at art in this
space and I’m looking at these

937
00:56:07,360 –> 00:56:10,000
stories.
And I’m being very metaphysical

938
00:56:10,000 –> 00:56:12,880
in this moment.
And I’m still crying, Paul just

939
00:56:12,880 –> 00:56:15,120
quietly wiping tears off my
face.

940
00:56:15,880 –> 00:56:19,520
And then all of a sudden, I felt
the voice that is not my own

941
00:56:19,520 –> 00:56:22,160
speak to me.
And it said this.

942
00:56:23,120 –> 00:56:27,120
You’re sitting in the space of
kings and I put you here.

943
00:56:29,120 –> 00:56:33,280
And I look around and I’m
looking at the panels and you

944
00:56:33,280 –> 00:56:34,960
read the story from the bottom
up.

945
00:56:35,120 –> 00:56:37,760
Did you know that that when they
make them, you start here and

946
00:56:37,760 –> 00:56:40,280
you go up.
And as I’m looking at the story

947
00:56:40,280 –> 00:56:43,000
that looked like David, pretty
sure it was the one on David,

948
00:56:43,960 –> 00:56:52,080
all of a sudden I’m looking up.
And I went, Oh my gosh, the

949
00:56:52,080 –> 00:56:58,360
artisans from 12:40 made it such
that the person with the most

950
00:56:58,360 –> 00:57:01,560
power in the world that they
would have known of at that time

951
00:57:02,960 –> 00:57:07,600
would have had to read the
stories and find himself looking

952
00:57:07,600 –> 00:57:15,520
up each time.
And as I sat there thinking

953
00:57:15,520 –> 00:57:23,960
about that, that blue light just
washed over me and I wasn’t

954
00:57:23,960 –> 00:57:31,040
grieving anymore.
And I said, OK, it wasn’t easy,

955
00:57:31,800 –> 00:57:33,160
but you’re still here, aren’t
you?

956
00:57:33,840 –> 00:57:36,400
You were here then, and you’re
here now.

957
00:57:36,920 –> 00:57:39,840
You live outside of time and you
live outside of pain and you

958
00:57:39,840 –> 00:57:43,280
live outside of experience
because you are who you say you

959
00:57:43,280 –> 00:57:47,640
are and you’re still here and
it’s good enough.

960
00:57:47,640 –> 00:57:50,440
Wow.
That’s powerful.

961
00:57:50,760 –> 00:57:54,040
That’s powerful.
Again, there’s so much that

962
00:57:54,040 –> 00:57:57,160
we’ve touched on, so much more
we could touch on, but as we

963
00:57:57,160 –> 00:57:59,360
close, is there anything else
that God’s putting on your heart

964
00:57:59,360 –> 00:58:02,680
that you feel led to share?
No, that was it.

965
00:58:02,840 –> 00:58:04,800
I just wanted to tell that blue
story.

966
00:58:05,120 –> 00:58:06,920
And I want to thank you for
having me, Paul.

967
00:58:07,400 –> 00:58:09,280
I really do.
I mean, I just, you’re my

968
00:58:09,280 –> 00:58:12,440
brother.
And I just feel so blessed that

969
00:58:12,480 –> 00:58:14,320
you said yes to my little
request.

970
00:58:14,320 –> 00:58:17,640
And I wish you nothing but
wonderful things and a great

971
00:58:17,640 –> 00:58:21,520
ministry that is highly
diversified and manic.

972
00:58:21,600 –> 00:58:24,000
I love that.
Well, thank you.

973
00:58:24,040 –> 00:58:29,680
Thank you so much.
Days through the streets

974
00:58:29,680 –> 00:58:34,760
shouting praise to the world.
You’re healed, you’re clean.

975
00:58:38,440 –> 00:58:40,920
Go out.
Tell the people what you see

976
00:58:41,200 –> 00:58:41,960
revived in him.
New.

977
00:58:45,560 –> 00:58:48,320
Life in him.
In Psalm 62, David says this.

978
00:58:49,360 –> 00:58:52,280
Truly.
My soul finds rest in God.

979
00:58:52,800 –> 00:58:58,520
My salvation comes from him.
Truly He is my rock and my

980
00:58:58,520 –> 00:59:01,480
salvation.
He is my fortress.

981
00:59:02,040 –> 00:59:06,760
I will never be shaken.
How long will you assault me?

982
00:59:07,280 –> 00:59:10,240
Would all of you throw me down
this leaning wall, this

983
00:59:10,240 –> 00:59:13,840
tottering fence?
Surely they intend to topple me.

984
00:59:13,840 –> 00:59:17,360
For my lofty place they take
delight and lies.

985
00:59:17,960 –> 00:59:21,040
With their mouths they bless,
but in their hearts they curse.

986
00:59:22,720 –> 00:59:29,480
Yes, my soul find rest in God.
My hope comes from Him.

987
00:59:30,520 –> 00:59:32,960
Truly.
He is my rock and my salvation.

988
00:59:33,400 –> 00:59:36,480
He is my fortress.
I will not be shaken.

989
00:59:37,600 –> 00:59:40,560
My salvation and my honor depend
on God.

990
00:59:41,560 –> 00:59:48,240
He is my mighty rock, my refuge.
Trust in Him at all times, you

991
00:59:48,240 –> 00:59:52,600
people.
Pour out your hearts to Him, for

992
00:59:52,600 –> 00:59:58,640
God is our refuge.
David is known as a man after

993
00:59:58,640 –> 01:00:04,160
God’s own heart, and we see him
trusting God in profound ways.

994
01:00:04,640 –> 01:00:08,560
When the entire Israelite army
was afraid to face one man,

995
01:00:09,160 –> 01:00:12,840
David, the smallest amongst
them, stepped up because he

996
01:00:12,840 –> 01:00:16,800
trusted God.
When he was pursued by Saul and

997
01:00:16,800 –> 01:00:20,520
had to hide in caves, he trusted
in God.

998
01:00:21,160 –> 01:00:23,560
And regardless of the hardships
that he faced throughout his

999
01:00:23,560 –> 01:00:28,760
life, he was resolved to trust.
And yet the hardships kept

1000
01:00:28,760 –> 01:00:32,680
coming.
Psalm after Psalm after Psalm

1001
01:00:33,000 –> 01:00:37,120
show us moments in David’s life
where the opposition and pain

1002
01:00:37,240 –> 01:00:42,800
are so extreme that it is hard
for him to understand where God

1003
01:00:42,800 –> 01:00:45,520
is and why he’s allowing it to
happen.

1004
01:00:46,280 –> 01:00:51,160
And yet in these psalms he is
still resolved.

1005
01:00:52,320 –> 01:00:56,280
Yes, my soul find rest in God.
My hope comes from Him.

1006
01:00:57,080 –> 01:00:59,040
Truly.
He is my rock and my salvation.

1007
01:00:59,040 –> 01:01:02,120
He is my fortress.
I will not be shaken.

1008
01:01:03,560 –> 01:01:07,080
He reiterates these lines from
verses one and two.

1009
01:01:07,680 –> 01:01:10,600
He is emphatic to his soul and
reminds himself that his

1010
01:01:10,600 –> 01:01:14,120
salvation and his honor depend
on God, that God is his mighty.

1011
01:01:14,120 –> 01:01:18,000
Rock his refuge.
And then He extends this truth

1012
01:01:18,000 –> 01:01:22,680
out to any who will listen.
Trust in Him at all times, you

1013
01:01:22,680 –> 01:01:26,000
people, Pour out your hearts to
him.

1014
01:01:26,000 –> 01:01:30,760
For God is our refuge.
There are things that happen in

1015
01:01:30,760 –> 01:01:34,200
our life that can make it seem
like God is not our refuge.

1016
01:01:34,840 –> 01:01:39,120
And yet David’s life revealed
the opposite, that in hardship

1017
01:01:39,120 –> 01:01:43,280
after hardship after hardship,
God had shown himself faithful.

1018
01:01:44,040 –> 01:01:48,440
God was his refuge even when
David felt most alone.

1019
01:01:48,960 –> 01:01:52,240
And through this, David was able
to learn that his trust could

1020
01:01:52,240 –> 01:01:56,760
not be simply in what he wanted
God to do, but his trust should

1021
01:01:56,760 –> 01:02:01,800
be in who God is.
David named God’s

1022
01:02:01,800 –> 01:02:05,880
characteristics even as his
adversaries advanced because he

1023
01:02:05,880 –> 01:02:10,600
knew no matter what happened did
not change the true nature of

1024
01:02:10,600 –> 01:02:15,320
the God who created him.
David trusted and who God is,

1025
01:02:15,640 –> 01:02:19,640
and we can do the same.
If you are navigating an intense

1026
01:02:19,680 –> 01:02:23,960
hardship, if it seems like God
is not your refuge, follow

1027
01:02:23,960 –> 01:02:27,800
David’s lead.
Claim God’s characteristics and

1028
01:02:27,800 –> 01:02:31,320
resolve to trust that those
characteristics are true.

1029
01:02:31,960 –> 01:02:36,560
Name it in the hardest moments
and then ask yourself, where did

1030
01:02:36,560 –> 01:02:37,360
you see God?